Engine what difference does a lightened flywheel make?

*off topic*

212mm on the 20V..... that's what they should be, they still use C series trannies, and i believe that's the larges that will fit

the gze's, however, use a different tranny and a different flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate.... the E series setup takes a stepped flywheel and is much larger (i believe mine is a 228?) the us mr2 uses a 220, i believe.... and sc mr2's use (again, i believe) a 220mm setup.... however i'm using a 228mm setup in a sc mr2 tranny

if you look at the flywheel, the gze setup is quite different:


*back to topic*

well, here ya go.... 212mm billet steel (better than aluminum flywheels) and only 10.2lbs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Comp...ewItemQQcategoryZ33732QQitemZ8013367459QQrdZ1

Toyotaspeed90 - just curious, was that metal puck disc OEM on the 4AGZE or was it a upgraded TRD part? Pretty hardcore if it was OEM.

it's TRD Japan.... 3 puck metallic facing racing clutch.... the motor also came with the TRD Japan pressure plate..... the 2 combined are worth around $700 new

But dont he need a 6 bolt?

lol, i didn't pay attention that time.... i should know better

Never thought it was this difficult to find a 212mm 6bolt flywheel. All the ones I came across are the 8's.

Ya its really hard. Ok one question. The 200mm flywheel so will I have problems with the starter grabbing on to it cause it's smaller?

no, the ring gear size on all the flywheels are the same......

well I just got the stock flywheel tonight and man what a difference it is to the aftermarket one I used to have. This thing is like 2-3 times as heavy! I'm just happy though cause now I'm closer to my car being done.

well, like i said.... the one you bought looked like it was just a stock flywheel machined back.... it's fairly common

I know this thread sould've died but anyone know the flywheel specs for the 5a-fe? I've pretty much given up trying to find a american company that makes a 212 6bolt.

[edit]
With furture research I believe the 5a-fe from the ae100 has a 212mm flywheel since it uses the same clutch from the late model 4ag's (20v stop/btop) and 1zz/2zz.
and if this engine is indeed a 5a-fe, than it does have a 6 bolt pattern

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-9...33615QQitemZ8014134324QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://www.usedjapaneseengines.com/engines/toyota.htm

sooo there are a few japanese companies including Jun who have a flywheel for the 5a
http://www.takakaira.com/asp/template.asp?id=744&cat=2
4.5kg = 9.92lbs

Correct me if i'm wrong
but until then consider a 212mm 6bolt flywheel FOUND =P

better late than never huh?

oh man I wish you found this out earlier cause then I'll still have a lightened flywheel and don't have to get new clutches. I already looked to see if the 200mm fit and it doesn't, but the clutch disk did mate up alright though while the pressure plate didn't.

that's right ... JUN bitches!

:signGives J/K man that looks sweet. I'll try to get a hold of one later on, but I'm just focusing on making my car run now. Make sure to tell us on how better it is compared to the stock one.

I really wouldn't know what to say even after it gets installed. I've been driving my car with a slippy clutch for over 5 months now so i cant really recall how it used to feel.

I would've found it earlier but didn't have any free time until turkey day weekend =). Just as well it took sxlostv like 2 months to receive it? But when I'm doing my swap i'll probably just stick with the stock flywheel for a while until I build up some mad 3pedals driving skills.

How much does that flywheel weigh? I've got the Fidanza 3 peice 8lb wheel and its awesome.

Never mind, looked it up. 9.47lb, that should be pretty nice.

actually it took 4 months for my flywheel to arrive because it was off production or something. i just got it installed yesterday and it revs a little quicker. for some reason my speedometer doesnt read anything though. must be a lose wire.

yea the jun flywheel isnt bad at all. it's a 1 piece construction of chromolly forged steel so it lasts twice as long than any traditional flywheel. also it's a little heavier than the fidanza so it's a very little bit easier to drive.

hmm..... hope you have a scatter shield

fidanzas can go kaput on high rpm's

Can you show me an article that shows the fidanza's blowing up?

ANY AND ALL aluminum flywheels can break apart (which is why they make scatter shields).

good luck with fidanza..... the ring gears tend to fall off

I can't find anything on google or any other search engine that would suggest that Fidanza Aluminum flywheels fall apart or shatter? Where do you get your information from? And don't say "Anybody" or "Anyone" because those don't count. I want to know which data source shows this to be factual information so I can contact them directly. If Fidanza sells flywheels that can explode in a car that only pushes < 200hp and relines a hair over 6k then they have a serious problem and I'll take it up with them. However if you were just saying that they can explode theoretically as in if I had 2000 whp or something then thats fine but completely non-relevant to which wheel you should purchase.

i'll agree with you on that one barney. but in the event that the flywheel does shatter, the manufacturer will not take any responsibility towards it at all. most of these things have a disclaimer on their owners manual or warning sheets that say that they won't back any of their race products once it's been installed.

aluminum flywheels aren't quite as great as everyone thinks.....

first off, i KNOW people who have had their fidanza ring gears fall off......

secondly, if you don't use threadlocker (and it's not even guaranteed to work) on the pressure plate bolts then expect to lose your clutch in ~100,000 miles or less.... the bolts are steel. aluminum and steel have different expansion rates at different heats. Meaning, the bolts will back out with time (also, i worked on a car IN MY GARAGE that did this).

thirdly, although these don't directly correspond to a lightened flywheel:
http://forums.military.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/7421994136/m/3480039120001

10th paragraph, last sentance:
http://www.htcav.asn.au/NewsBathurst04.html

while doing a quick search for this, i came to 2 forums: one from srt4 forums that had a pictured named as "first the flywheel shattered" but couldn't find the source of it. Also, i came across some honda forum... although they were trying to talk around it, half of what they were saying was incorrect!

http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-24817.html

they were talking about how the aluminum will just bend or warp, not crack. Right. Aluminum doesn't crack? well, guess nobody has ever cracked an aluminum head?

and any idiot who thinks aluminum doesn't crack should read up on the process of magnafluxing:
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/139_0308_mag/

what would cause a flywheel to shatter? A crack and or warp spinning at high rpm - carrying a weight/load on it. Hmm, sounds like what a flywheel does to me. It's simple physics.

also... forgot to mention this:

on that forum they're not even talking about the fact that aluminum isn't up to the task of being the clutch plate mating surface. The reason aluminum flywheels are '2' or '3' pieces is because they are composed of the 'flywheel', a pressoed on ring gear, and a bolted on steel mating surface.

think about this: if you have the mating surface bolted to the flywheel, and 2 bolts next to one another are 1-2ft/lb difference.... then one of 2 things will happen: 1: the steel surface won't be perfectly flat causing different tensions on the steel surface when the clutch plate is mated to it at rotating speed (most likely the steel will just wear down at the higher points, but not necessarily), or 2: there will be a difference in the amount of force upon the flywheel... and as that heats up the different tensions can cause the section between the 2 bolt holes to crack.

when you bring a core flywheel into a parts store, if there are over a certain number of cracks or a single crack that's too long then the flywheel won't be allowed to be turned in as an ok core. i've personally had to turn away (obviously not aluminum as i don't sell aluminum flywheels at a parts store) a flywheel with too big of cracks in the surface.

one other thing i did just notice: (third post in a row, but it will just attach this portion as well

the flywheel pictured above (the Jun) isn't an aluminum flywheel. It is a chromoly flywheel so don't use that as an example of a 'one piece aluminum flywheel'.

Who?

Wow, I was unaware that a bolt could loosen that slowly over time. And if this was even true who the hell gets 100k out of a performance clutch when they drive like a mad man? And chances are when you swap out the disc your going to re-tighten all the bolts. But I still think this is BS. Not about the expansion of steel and aluminum but the fact that you claim it is enough to effect the bolts tension enough for them to back out, this would put Fidanza out of business if it was the case.

Posting a link that shows how non-aluminum flywheels can shatter is not helping your argument against the aluminum ones

I don't see anything saying his flywheel was aluminum? All you have proven so far is that non-aluminum flywheels are more prone to shatter then aluminum ones

Interesting, yet another forum showing how a Chromoly flywheel shatteredd, but no speak of an aluminum one failing. Hmmmmm :superconf Not only that but damn, the guy on this thread actually suggests you get an aluminum flywheel if you run high revs. Are you trying to kill your argument?

"To be safe, PLEASE get an aluminum flywheel, especially if you have a high revving car (type R, s2000, etc)."

I have not found any material that is crack proof. Wood, diamonds, steel, iron, aluminum, glass? What is your point? The argument isn't that aluminum doesn't crack. The argument is that aluminum flywheels are fragile and shatter where as other non-aluminum flywheels don't which at this point is complete BS and seems to be an empty argument. All you have proven up to this point is that you found more information on non-aluminum flywheels exploding then the reverse.

How does this apply to only aluminum flywheels? You’re just stating the obvious; we need real facts that apply only to aluminum flywheels. And also note that your argument is counter productive since you claim that spinning at high RPM's with weight/load are the cause of failure. By your own logic a heavier non aluminum flywheel with a crack would be more likely to shatter.

Won't be perfectly flat? Wow, could you contact Fidanza and tell them that because they are probably going to give you some money for solving there problem where as every single person that installs there flywheel gets massive clutch chatter because the mating surface is not flat, Wow . Also the reason they use a steel mating surface is because steal is more wear resistant then aluminum and it makes sense to go this way to get the most life out of the flywheel. Also it’s nice to only have to replace an insert on your flywheel instead of having to take it in to be milled down. And I would like to note again that you ended your last paragraph talking about fractures and cracks in a non-aluminum flywheel. I'm thinking you really should take a step back and do more "Non-Bias" research since you obviously have noticed that all your sources contradict your arguments overall but only have small fragments that support you in any way.

When did I ever use the JUN as an example of anything? I know the JUN isn't aluminum, that is why I started asking questions about its weight in the first place. You just need to calm down and take a break. I never said or even think that JUN or any other flywheel for that matter is any better or any worse then any other, they are all just weights to me. The JUN is pretty light weight and that’s why I started asking questions in the first place. But then you had to come out of the wood-work smashing Fidanza and its clear you don't have any relevant information and actually supplied facts that were contrary to your argument. That’s all I'm saying.

So far this is the only part I agree with "Hmmmmm"

Yeah, but that is true for all aftermarket racing flywheels, not just aluminum ones. And with good reason since most people installing these parts are hard core racers trying to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of there ride and who the hell would warranty a part under those circumstances

you're an idiot. i'm pointing out blatent physical characteristics of aluminum.

Tim (of Tims Toys... on his 2t/3t hybrid which then was in his te51) had his ring gear fall off. He knew of an ae86 owner in WA who also had it happen to them. I know tim personally, and saw the flywheel.



this is a picture of an SL2 motor (from the saturn in the picture). Why did we pull the motor? there was no clutch to speak of, and the entire hydraulic system had already been replaced. Oh wait, that's right. All of the pressure plate bolts had backed out almost 1/2 way in less than 60,000 miles. You're right, though... it CAN'T happen..

'hard core racers' are installing these flywheels. must be the same hard core racers who get 300lbs of stereo garbage and now need to lighten the drivetrain a bit because they're hard core racers who have effectively just slowed their car down. *rolls eyes*

"A factory cast-iron flywheel is an accident waiting to happen in a high-revving drag car. An SFI-approved billet-steel flywheel is not only good insurance, it’s also required by the NHRA for cars running 11.99 or quicker, which our Mustang would be capable of if we could just learn to drive or get it to hook. The Centerforce billet flywheel we used incorporates a 50-ounce imbalance compatible with 1981-and-later 5.0L Ford engines. Centerforce recommends breaking in a new flywheel by having it resurfaced or sandblasted to help the clutch seat."

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/98378/

all of those 'hard core racer' nhra guys MUST be using aluminum flywheels since they work so great. Oh wait, no. Billet steel are the only ones approved.

hmm, this seems to have a lot of aftermarket flywheels & talking about shatter proof.... oh wait, again.... NOT aluminum flywheels

http://www.ramclutches.com/Products/flywheels.htm

hmm.... skunk2 offers a K series engine racing flywheel:
http://www.skunk2.com/raceShop/raceServices.html

oh wait, again... NOT aluminum....

from doing some simple google searches i've kinda gathered this: aluminum flywheels really aren't approved for higher end racing applications. Although nobody says why, i'm sure it's apparent. IMO an aluminum flywheel is just a step above having your stock flywheel cut back - it's a cheap way to gain some revs.... it would be used by those who every now and then race (autox or drag) but aren't serious.

my whole point for putting up the honda forum was to show that they were leaving out a WHOLE lot of information when talking about this. You just decided to take what i said out of context to make yourself look smarter. But if you had read it all, I did say:

"they were talking about how the aluminum will just bend or warp, not crack. Right. Aluminum doesn't crack? well, guess nobody has ever cracked an aluminum head?"

and

"on that forum they're not even talking about the fact that aluminum isn't up to the task of being the clutch plate mating surface"

which to me..... sounds like i'm saying "they necessarily don't know what they're talking about"

calm down? lol, i'm sitting in a chair typing on a screen and doing some google 'research'

i'm sure you could aruge that the earth is flat, but you wouldn't be right.

(this will probably automerge)

after thinking for a few minutes after typing the last response up.... i thought about this..

what i had said earlier was simply this: flywheels as a whole can shatter (if you READ i actually said 'these don't say they were aluminum but'). Then i basically said that they would shatter from something being wrong with the metal (ie, warped heavily or cracked). Then i put up the forum showing the guys who obviously didn't think through everything to well. And then i talked about how aluminum actually can crack.

and, if you're going to argue with me that the amount of ft/lb per screw doesn't matter on a 3 piece flywheel (for the mating surface) and that differences between them doesn't matter answer yourself this question: Why does an aluminum head need to be torqued down in a specific order?

i'm definately not arguing that it is probable that it will happen. I'm saying that there is potential for it to happen and you should beware. Saying that it is not possible to happen is ignorance.

these guys, now, seem to know what they're talking about!

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=80390&page=3

and the talk SPECIFICALLY about how fidanza doesn't bolt or pin the ring gear

Wow, and you call me the idiot... Haha

damn....toyotaspeed sure has alot to say. I'll say he does bring up some good points, but the truth is it doesn't matter what the flywheel is made out of. any flywheel will break. the only reason the nhra only approves of that certain flywheel is because that flywheel is under constant strain. aluminum flywheels are great for street use. Not for full out race use. on the street, ur not raping the hell out of your car everytime the light turns green or it's ur turn to go at a stop sign. I personally run a fidanza flywheel and a stage 3 clutch on my supra. it's got about 10k miles on it and no problems what so ever. not saying that it can't give me problems, just saying that it's holding its own pretty good so far. just my .02

Well stated 7MGTTEConcept.