Speaking of Camaros...

...call me wierd, but i'm looking forward to the Cobalt SS. i realise that with this car, Chevy's trying to change their image(and just might do it..)...so we'll see what happens.

I think all cavs blew.

cobalt ss is the same thing as the ion redline...just with a different body.

wow, I'm not usually a fan of GM stuff, but much like the 2005 mustang, that looks like a restyled 67 camaro me likey, but I'll never afford one

That would be nice as hell. I'd buy one, but I'd also have to have something Japanese and turbo in my garage to compensate. lol

You have to remember that a little engine will have to work just more then a larger engine to do the same amount of work.... In turn using about the same amount of gas, sometimes the larger of the engines using less. Show's that in the 4-6 cyl comparisons...

BTW, I would much rather have a Toyota, the engine in the GS400, 4.0l V8 1UZ-FE. It's a fricken DOHC 32v engine and an aluminum block. Talk about efficient and fast. The things keeping the american V8's off of high rpm and really getting the torque is basically pushrod technology. Think about it that post I did before about the Ultima car with a 10,000 rpm crank and harmonically balanced and everything to be able to get it up to 10,000rpm reliably. The only engine that is american V8 without pushrod is the northstar engine that they use in F1 and Formula races. Then again the V8 in the Gs400 or 430 is only a 4.0 but they have a 4.7l 32valve in their trucks. Think about this too the V8's that ferrari uses a DOHC, the V6 NSX engine is a DOHC 3.4l.

From the Lexus site "The all-aluminum, double overhead-cam, 4.3-liter V8 engine produces 300 horsepower and 325 lb.-ft. of peak torque, and, coupled with a five-speed automatic transmission, can propel the car from 0-60 mph in only 5.9 seconds. "

I dunno...

Well spoken, but take these into account.
The pushrod V8 is a less complex motor, therefore has less parts making it lighter and smaller. They are less complicated as well, which is their strong point...fewer parts to break equates to making those few parts strong and then you have an incredible motor. Also, this makes them cheaper to manufacture, which makes for a more reasonably priced car (look at the Corvette). Maybe simplicity is blissful for the Pushrod. The performance is simply undeniable, again look at the Vette and the LS1 legacy.

The corvette can outperform many cars double its price, as previously stated. The NSX is an impressive vehicle...but the price for it is way over the vette, and yet it can still not outperform a vette (in a drag anyway). Whenever you speak of Ferraris you speak of cars triple the price of the Corvette. Now compare the Ferraris to a Viper or the Ford GT. There is your comparison, not the vette.

i'm aware...but the body is significantly better looking on the Chevy. i can't stand plastic bodies.

that colbolt looks cool i wouldnt mind taking it for a test drive. its about time chevy took the crappy cavalier off the lot not dissing the older model cavs but the new gen ones

In my opinion there are NO good american cars made from 74 to 85 in looks, reliability or HP. Imports were in the same boat except for the reliability. All American companies have made leaps and bounds since that (dark) era. But I still think you can't beat a Toyota for dependibility and resale.

I looked at a redline... nothing special. In fact for the money i would much rather have a IS300 5 speed touring edition.

The less moving parts is good. But the big or small block V8's aren't the only engines made to be bullet proof. Just becuase you have more moving parts doesn't mean the failure rate will go up. Just means there's more to fix if anything does happen to fail. If one pushrod breaks it's the same as if one valve breaks so to speak...
With a V8 you have more room for failure becuase of the inherit design of the engine where as a DOHC has less design flaws. And makes more power with less.

Think about this. The 2.0l Vtec engine of the S2000 makes about 240hp about 60hp per cyl or 120hp per liter. A pushrod V8 5.7l will make 320hp maybe with 350 torque, maybe, translating to about 40hp per cyl and 56hp per ltr. Now translate that to a V8 if it used Vtec or VVti-l 4.0l DOHC theoretically 400hp easy with a low 50hp per cyl and 100hp per ltr. Also With 1.7 liters less. This is why ferrari's use it and are tuned so nicely. 910hp outta a V10 dohc 3.0l N/A, without alchohol or turbo. Ferrari's run a max of 18,500rpm but ran in the race with the highest of 18,000 i think it was.

So a V8 with toyota's reliability, ferrari type technology, vvti-l, 5.7l or 6.0l and you got yourself a fricken monster engine, even a 4.0l is sick. Twin turbo it and hot damn. And still smaller then a Normal Pushrod V8.

My last GM auto was a 80 Camaro RS, It was nice looking It handled like a dream, so-so power (V6) on the other hand the motor leaked oil like no end in sight, The tranny was acting weird and all the other needed items. We had already bought a used 82 Datsun B 210 and I went with a new 87 Nissan Sentra E after a few more Japanese cars (needed those options you know econoboxes suck after you drive the loaded ones) I discovered Toyota and thats what makes me happy, being able to build trust and confidence on trips and everyday use. Yes there are trade-offs like the small size and the fact they dont exactly handle the best in the world, Bland exterior and interior. But with proper care they will go 200K with only simple maintenance and repairs. The american auto companies have had a lot of years to work on "issues" but I dont think they have done all they can. CW

Ferrari's 053 engine is what you are talking about. 3.0L V10, with 4-valves per cylinder. No VTEC inspired timing due to FIA regulations. It did run full @ 18,200 rpms at Quebec. I pushrod motor just seems too impractical to make these numbers possible @ 3.0L. Also I have to mention the Ferrari reliablity. Its par or better than Toyotas. Toyota isnt doing so hot when it comes to engines in Formula 1, the true test of an engine. Ferrari has had 9 starts and finishes with 0 engine failures. The only company to pull that off this season.

You have to remember Toyota is a novice in the field of F1 racing. Leaders like Honda and Ferrari have a history behind them in F1 racing. Toyota is too new to be compared to these stalwarts.

to each his own.


remind me, how fast is your corolla?

Actually, I think Ferraris cost a shitload to maintain. It's somewhere in the ballpark off $5k-$10k a year or more depending on how much you drive them. People don't use Ferraris as weekend cars because they choose to... If you want a reliable exotic that you can drive the shit out of on a daily basis, get a Porsche or a 600 or AMG Benz.

This thread is getting a little off topic BTW... Let's just let it die.

I think this is a good idea to bring it back because there are tons of people that love camaros and lots of people that dont like ford and want a big ol engine with tons of power. That concept of the camaro is really sweet too. But i dont think it will sell to well unless it is less in price. the only peple that are gonna buy it are the diehard fans. I would defnitinly buy one the second it came out. I mean, how many people can actually say they would rather driver a 4cyl little weak engine over a friggin huge ROARING RUMBLING, rev your engine and shake the whole car chevy V8. especially the new 6.0L ls2. Throw some flowmaster exhuast on there and it will sound so beautiful youll want to driver the car just to hear it. Not to mention the crazy amounts of torque produced. But then on the downside, how reliable is it gonna be? I doubt it will be that reliable and it will suck in bad weather. Gas milage isnt really a problem. IMO i dont think it will do very well, but i welcome it and i will definitly pick one up, in dayton yellow with tuxedo black strips just like in 69'

They are expensive to maintain but when is the last time you saw a Ferrari broken down on the highway? Ive seen Ferraris with the same milage on them as "regular" cars from the same year. And the Benz have a terrible reliability track record. Just ask anyone whos owned one.

My family has had 2 Benzes. I drove a C280 almost every day to highschool... I think Benzes are some of the most reliable and well built cars on the road.... by far.

Don't listen to JD Power, BTW. When you have a car as sophisticated as a Benz and owners as demading as Benz owners, you're going to come across more problems than you will with another make. This doesn't mean the cars aren't reliable, it just means they have very particular owners.

I have seen a lot of benz with 250K, I can't imagine there are many ferrari's around with that mileage. the big factor is $$$$$$$$$$$$ I am sure chevy could make an engine like ferrari they would just have to tack 40 grand onto any car they put it in.

I think the new Camaro could do well, chevy would have to actually market it though. they really let it down in the 90's. it has been faster then mustangs since the 4th gen came about and yet mustangs sales still killed the camaros and firebird combined. bad marketing and too expensive imo

Eh, BMW is better. Ask anyone who has owned both. I have and the guy said he hated his MB over his Bimmer.

between Benz and BMW, the BMW will almost always win out.

daimler chrysler's the pits most of the time.

well, it is...repair records are horrid.

I guess you guys are ignoring all the complaints/failures that have come about as a result of the new i-Drive system? I don't recall COMMAND having any problems like that...

i-drive for what?

i-drive is the sound/everythign system on the 7-series, it's also on the new 5-series, but doesn't control as much, and it's made a bit more user-friendly, but still lots of complaints

Thats only on the 7 series. Read before speaking.

pwn3d

i-Drive is also on the new 5-series. and even though it's a little bit more simplified, there's still quite a few complaints about it.


now why don't we get back to camaros, and quit hijacking threads, eh?