Engine 1ZZ-FE breathing....

Vamp has his internals beefed to hell. I don't think chassis flex would be a problem if you had those Ultra Racing 3 point front bar, rear bar, fender bars, and front and rear sway bars.

Alright... I have never said that you could push 250 n/a hp outta that block.... hell even with 13:1 CR, a fully ported head, drysump lubrication and mysetup matted to a 280+ duration cam, I don't think you can get higher than 200whp (230bhp) for the price of about 5 Dizzy.

The ITB setup everybody is talking about is the one with the plenum, running a MAF. In doing so you have to concerve the 3 inch diameter of the intake pipe, in other words, you put a restricter plate on a bigger capacity intake system....

Hell how can someone prefer a 60mm (or 70mm) TB over four 44mm one??? can't you guys calculate, it has the area of a 88mm TB and no bend to disturb airflow. It give a maximum intake flow of over 700 CFM in 10 inH2O. I know our engine is barely capable of flowing 400 CFM 10 inH2O but that is in stock form, with no porting done what so ever. The shocking truth with our setup is that our Manifold flow less than 300 CFM and a little higher for the Celica GT.

You get the point, 325 CFM in 10 ich of water pushes 140 hp, 400 should give 172. The ITBs will never make power on their on, well they will, but not enough to justify the work and investment. What they do is open up the posibilities to use CRAZY cams to the fullest and to port the hell outta that little head.

Plus don't forget the use of 8 injectors (still not confirmed here but 90% sure) will allow for a better fuel map. 8 injectors fireing for half the duration of 4 injectors, will get the same amount of fuel in the combustion chamber but will be able to deliever it when the intake valve is actually open. In that fashion, fuel doesn't sit on top of the valves waiting for it to open but get sucked inside the combustion chamber without getting heat soaked on the valves so combustion is more efficient.

Don't get me wrong, 150 whp is good, but I think it's not close to what we can get outta this block. We just have to use a good receipe, and that is ll I'm trying to experiment on here. I know that F/I is the best power adder on a F head and don't get me wrong, the big bore kit is a great kit to use on F/I setup but I don't think it is economicaly a good thing to get if you are going n/a. It will always yield more power at the end, I agree with you, but at the price it would cost one to get all those installed, you better go out and buy a dizzy. What I'm trying to do here is get close to that, while spending half the price it would cost.

It will take some more time to have the have a definite answer on how I will mount the TBs, since it's raining buckets here right now, I won't be running all over the junkyard in a foot of mud to get what I am after, but rather wait till next week or maybe friday.

I'll keep you guys informed.

Tom

Of course if you get the 2ZZGE instead of turbocharging the 1ZZFE, you don't get that cool spooling sound! Plus more torque is available.

fully built race engine + ~12-20psi = 275-350 whp according to matt of MWR

wish we had control arm bars for the front and rear too

I'm sure there are some out there. If not, you could always fabricate a set.

Update!

Here I am, waiting for tomorrow to pickup a stock intake gasket from the local autoparts store and thought I would give you guys an update.

First of all I am currently cleanning a stock intake manifold from a 20V 4age with 44mm ITBs. Here are the good news...

First, taken from calculation on my mounted manifold and the 4age one, the runners are very well in line on both cars.

Second, the 2 manifold share 2 of the mounting holes, outta 5 for the 1ZZ.

Since I don't have the stock intake gasketyet , I got the picture of one on internet and photoshoped it on a picture I took of my 4age manifold...

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/...gasketmatch.jpg

look at #3 runner (second from the left), it seems to be the most inline on the picture I took, the gasket seems to fit perfectly on it. It will need a big time port match, since the 4age has the injector mounted in the manifold, different from our "in the head" setup. The other runners don't seem to be in line with the gasket but it might be due to different angles of shot from both pictures.

Here is the plan... gasket match the 4age manifold to the 1zz intake gasket, good news is that there is a lot of aluminium around the base of the runners (where they meet with the flange) and the port, which are of an inverted "T" type, have an oval runners connected to them which is about the size of our port so it shouldn't be a problem to port it, it will just take a couple of dremels heads. Next, cut the loops for the stock mounting bolt and weld extra metal in place of the 3 remaining mounting bolts, to thicken those part of the flange, and then drill holes for those 3 bolts. Then, fabricate a ceramic spacer to sandwish between the manifold and the head (to keep heat away and give enough clearence on top of the manifold between the vaccum box and our injector harness).

This will leave me with a total manifold lenght of 5 1/2 inchs to 6 inchs (depending on the spacer's total thickness) to allow me to clear the harness. Add the filters (high flow cones that you find on a sidedraft setting) and it sould clear the 8 inchs lenght limit I wanna achieve. If it end up being longer (to a maximum of 10 inchs), I will have to swap radiator with a 7th gen rolla, to clear the upper radiator hose. Lets all cross our fingers for this not to happen but in the end, I might not have to do the later... If the cone filter don't fit, I'd rather make my own filters, outta steel mesh covered with a foam type filter, than swap the rad.

Anyways, I still have a lot of option and wiggle room if anything turn out worst than it seems. Stay tuned for the real picture... the 4age flange and the intake gasket, to confirm everything. Since their is close to no modification at all, apart from adding 3 bits of aluminium and drilling them, the manifold should be finished in no time.

Having everything preped and running will be longer though...The ECU is not yet finished but everything is figured out. Add the work to install everything (mainly to cut and weld several wires on the harness and a couple of resistors) and figure vaccum routing and fitting, and the biggest thing, getting that damn 4.312 FD tranny and installing it in the car, which should happen this fall or early on during the winter since I'm moving in October. Head work will happen during the winter, so everything should be finish and tested (with the real data and results) next spring.

Tom

This project is getting more and more interesting. Can you bore out the throttle bodies a bit bigger than 44 mm? The 1ZZFE is a slightly bigger motor than the 4AG so I'm sure it could make some difference.

Where the hell did he get the 12.5:1 pistons?? I thought only 11:1 were available.

Found this in newcelica.org
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=180873
Someone built a NA 1ZZ celica GT and got 166whp@6300rpm 143wtq@5600 rpm
He has
Wiseco 12.5:1 79.5mm pistons (he runs 100 octane unleaded)
MWR stage 4 1zz short block
MWR Stage 3 cylinder head
MWR custom long tube 4:1 header
PFC
Stock cams
Modified AEM intake
VERY high flow exhaust

With aftermarket cams and ITB, I think you can beat his number.

Probably custom order or reduction in combustion chamber volume or higher tdc height achieved by shaving either the top of the block or the bottom of the head..... or a combination of all the above...

The problem with his setup is that he didn't change the powerband at all and is only trying to get big hp numbers outta big torque numbers... everyone here knows that torque is almost always a question of displacement and dynamic airflow pressure (so in N/A situation, the only way to increase cylinder pressure is with the help of higher compression) F/I is completly an other story. Hp is a fonction of torque times rpm, upping the torque will get you so far but on a displacment restriction, the higher you have to rev to make your peek torque, the higher your hp numbers are gonna get.

I didn't have time to go pickup my gasket yet, I'll try to find a minute or 2 tomorrow so no pictures yet....

Thx for your support guys.... i'll try to beet those numbers as hard as I can

P.S. Boring the 44mm tbs would be useless.... the surface area of those 4 tbs equals a 88mm single tb, which is a lot bigger than our 60mm.. Plus the velocity of the airflow will be a lot better too, hence better torque numbers than with the same cams on the stock manifold. The difference between those TBs and the port should create a real good venturi tube, which will increase even more torque numbers. Higher airflow volume and better air flow velocity.... what a perfect receipe (think F/I here), even more with a big cam to get the most outta that... We'll see if 10:1 can beat 12.5:1...

Tom

how much would your ITB's cost? and is 60mm the stock diameter of our tb?

If we were doing this on a non-vvti we wouldn't have to worry about the ecu change, or would we still have to modify that?

You would have it easier since you wouldn't have to.

For the ITBs alone.... I paid 91$ on ebay for the whole thing, manifold, 4 sidefeed injectors, all the vaccum, plus the VSV, TPS, IAC and MAP sensors and the 4 ITBs plus all the throttle cable brackets. Plus 119 for shipping to Canada. The machining to fit it on the 1ZZ will be done by me, so it's almost free, except maybe 20 cent worth of aluminum and gaz to weld it.

Add to this a TPS and IAC sensor from a ZZE110 from the junkyard, a new intake gasket, plus a teflon plate 14 by 2 by 2 to machine as a spacer between the intake and cylinder head. I will need a couple of new vaccum lines, Not that I don't have any but I rather replace them while I'm at it. In all, it will not cost me more than 300$...

After that, I have a 98-99 ZZE110 ECU I bought on ebay for 21$ plus 12$ for shipping that I will use to convert it to map. All that is left, is 20$ worth of electric cable and heat shrink to customize the harness with the new sensors and 157$ for megasquirt 1 kit.

The most expensive will be the cams and and head work, I will gasket match the port by myself but have a friend of mine do a 3 angle valve job and ground the cams to specs, which will cost a good 500$ for good work. Plus tuning.

So about 1000$ for the hardware and maybe 500 to 1000$ in tuning, to have the 4 added injector tuned with the 4 stock ones and the fuel map configured for max output.

The rest of the stuff will not be necessary for anyone but me, but I stand by my 4.312 FD tranny so that will add another 500$, but I don't think we should count it on this setup.

That's why I am saying 2000$ at the most, but most likely I will spend 1500$ for the whole setup to be functionnal. At the moment, I'm a little under budget, I was planning to pay more than 300 for the ITBs alone and ended up paying just over 200, for the rest everything is perfectly as planned. Stay tunned for other updates.

P.S. for all of you guys wondering why I am converting my VVTi to a non-VVTi ECU, first please DON'T try to do it on anything close to a stock engine, it's the WORST idea you could have. The reason why I'm doing it, is that I can't use a MAF anymore without adding more restriction, so in order to tune the ignition, which is the hardest thing to do on a distributor-less setup, I need to tell the engine how much load their is on the engine. I will run the engine with a MAP sensor so an ECU already using a MAP and running a distributor-less system is the only way to go. I will rewire the single coil ignition to fire both coils on slave cylinder together (much like a wasted spark system, but more efficient and less of a hassle for me since I already have 4 coils already wired). The fan relay will be run like the non-vvti one, dirrectly by the ECT istead of by the ECU like the VVTi one. The VVT-i actuator will be run by the megasquirt with the help of a program I'm currently developping. The other difference between both engine is the EVAP system, but the VVTi ECU controls a valve and does a diagnostic reading on the system while the non-VVTi ECU doesn't give a damn about it so I'll just throw it away with the rest of the airbox anyways. In doing everything that way and only using the megasquirt to control VVT-i and the 8 injector's fuel map, I will still have the OBD-II of the stock ECU so it will be faster to do a diagnostic on the car. In order for the CEL to stay off, I will have to plug the stock injector harness with resistor, so the ECU will think that it still controls them and I will wire the Crankshaft position sensor with a couple of resistor to reduce the AC output and fool the ECU into thinking it doesn't rev as fast as I want it to. For other question on the ECU conversion, please ask, I will be pleased to answer your questions.

Tom

Wow. I'm going to have to read that a couple times to understand it. That's a lot of information in one short paragraph. LOL

Very true indeed...

The problem with the non-vvti head and the usage of a high duration/lift cam is the torque at low rpm. By advancing the intake timing, you move the torque curve to the low range at the expence of top end. I'm not saying that the vvt-i as more potential, but with the same setup, the vvt-i engine will be more "streetable" trough the use of advance intake cam timing.

The only trouble I moght think of with the use of a wasted spark ignition system and vvt-i is that in full advance mode, the intake valve starts to open around 60 degres BTDC (with a high duration cam) while the ingnition occure at a max of 30 to 35 degres BTDC, which could cause "back-fire" in the intake manifold. That's why I have to think ahead and mesure all the flow figures and forces here.

Because at high rpm, even if the piston is moving upward and the intake valve slightly open, the exhaust valve is still more open and closing down and the airflow is moving out through the exhaust port, this forces the airflow to suck the mixture sitting in the intake manifold, so the effect is slighly compensation for. Not taking into account that the gross duration and real duration of a cam is a lot different, my 270 duration ends up being more of a 212 duration at .050 lift. So I'll have to mesure everything out to have the real data and if there is a conflict, reduce the advance on the VVT-i

Tom

Would the ecu from the celica or mr2 help make the non-vvti more "streetable" or would it still run the same problem?? Sorry if I seem ignorant from all these questions just trying to understand and learn.

wow...this is a long thread..

It wouldn't do a single thing... sorry...

You need to drill and tap 2 holes for the VVT-i control valve and the filter, change the intake cam with a vvt-i one (with the advance and retard oil ports the shaft) and get the advance vane on the pulley....

... or change the whole cylinder head to a vvt-i one, which is way easier... but still, you would need to get the maf, rewire everything without the IAT and get the 4 coilover cylinder... and still the ECU would trough codes at you like a machine gun... VVT-i, EVAP and probably things I am not thinking about right now.

In other words there are a whole lot more ways to spend you money and torche the a stock vvt-i without spending the kinda effort and money to push 140 hp that way

... and hell... what a long thread that is....

Tom

long time no update?

Any word on the ITB setup?

So, I was very interested in this thread and keep checking it daily for updates. Did this whole thing just poop out or what? I gave my 02 1zz to my little bro, but still loves the rolla. Please tell me that this thread is alive and just on a break....

yeah same here, looks like he mightve given up

It's too much work for such a low power gain.

That sucks. I had no idea people would steal Corolla's. I though only Civics get stolen.

oh wow, sorry to see you go. it wasn't meant to be.

Sorry for the long wait guys, I haven't been here in a long time for some reasons....

3 month ago the rolla got stolen.... with the suspension and tires mag everything on it, luckily my cds weren't in it anyways long story short, I bought myself a spanking new Mazda 3 as a daily driver and I'm in the process of buying an other nissan S-12 to turn into a track car. The ITBs are still in the garage alongside the megasquirt and a lot of sensors... if everything turns out for the best, and if I can find the right s-12 before long, the ITBs, mega squirt and an old T2 converted into a centrifugal supercharger will end up on a twin charge setup on an S-12 . I am so sorry not to have been able to try a wicked n/a setup on the 1zzfe and I miss my rolla so much.

But now I'm returning to a rwd platform like I use to work on for years and nobody can say no to that.

So long guys

Tom