Engine 1ZZ-FE breathing....

well.... you guys I really have no clue what are the stock dimensions of the valve diameter and of the camshafts timmings, nor have an idea of airflow, but I think the software came thru for me in those areas...

look at those numbers it makes
stockness


VROOMness


9:1 compression, turbo, 8psi the rest the same as VROOMness

Do you think you would be able to graph it on the high compression 11:1??

The second one is on the 11:1 compression.

Alright, intake valves are 32mm diameters and exhaust are 27.5mm, I don't know about CFM numbers yet but I was expecting 100 CFM @ 10 inch of water (might be exactly the same as 0.737 inch of hg. I don't think we are calculating on the same basis here... 300 CFM seems to be way to high, my last 4age big port head was flowing 110 with a light port and made over 160 hp.... anyways try it with stock bore and CR and with MY numbers and see what happens...

Although it looks good, I was expecting those numbers without the big bore, but it's still good and it's still a simulator I can't wait to have everyhting ready and put it on a dyno. Post your result, I'm very curious

Tom

By the way, stock valves are 32 intake and 27.5 exhaust, duration 240 intake and 224 exhaust and lift is 9.3 intake and 8.4 exhaust, cam timing is still 110 BTDC for exhaust and 108 ATDC for intake. Run this through your sim and move the CFM in order to get something acurate for a stock setup, with stock bore and displacement, and please give me CFM @ 0.737 inch of HG which is the same as 10 inch of water, I have always mesure CFM in 10 inch of water, so I would apreciate the readings to be like that in orders to compare it to other numbers I have from previous experience. Try it with those numbers, we will see how acurate the thing is and then, try it with my numbers, just to give us the difference.

P.S. I would also apreciate If you could run my numbers with the intake cam centered at 98 and the exhaust at 100, cause from previous experiences, with some engine, you benifit from running a cam timing off 100-100 with cams higher than 270 duration. Just curious if it's the case.

P.S.S. Don't forget that you might not reach the same peak torque numbers as in real life because it occure in the mid rev range, which will be affected by the VVT-i, (if you have it like I do) intake cam timing is advance by 43 crank degres, with full VVT-i operation. You might run it that way though just to confirm the peak torque numbers. That's the same numbers except intake cam timing centered at 65 degres ATDC, might sound weird but that give a huge amount of valve overlap, which bump the peak torque in the mid range but won't be able to produce numbers higher than 4500 or 5000 rpm.

Tom

the biggest gain didn't came with the cams alone, exhaust played a huge part and if those 270 270 cams with 10mm lift exist, then I want ones with my new exhaust

ok so for the first graph, its engine bored, high comp. pistons? it says cams are stock though.

and the hp peak is at 7000pm.. i dont think the stock cams go that high, no? if i can achieve at least 250hp N/A i'll go with that instead

7000???? you sure you saw it right? I see it 6000 here.... the graph goes in 500rpm increments in the lines

the first one, you can read it to the side fairly stock and the stuff that sounds weird, mainly cam profile and valve diameters are automatic as I have 0 clue of the stock sizes

well looking at the graph the hp line peaks off at 7000rpm unless im blind

I recommend you look again xD

nah. it's still stuck @ 1.5inHG... can't change it... I still don't know what HG means and it would be usefull some convertion factor...
I'm still trying for the program to make 120hp @ 6200rpm and 120~125lbft @ 4000~4200rpm, it's all in the flow and little details @ the cams atm, I'm @ 110in the 6000~6500rpm area and torque is already hitting 120s @ 4000~4500 area

the program makes 500rpm jumps

okies, did the stock 1zz-fe no vvt-i one.... gotta make now the vvt-i one in full operation

QUOTE

P.S. I would also apreciate If you could run my numbers with the intake cam centered at 98 and the exhaust at 100, cause from previous experiences, with some engine, you benifit from running a cam timing off 100-100 with cams higher than 270 duration. Just curious if it's the case.

QUOTE

moved that, I received a huge flat line in HP/tq in the upper regions. without messing up the low end

It's a pressure measurement in inches of mercury(in Hg). It's a pretty standard pressure unit.
Here's the basic chart to help you convert in Hg to something more useful such as psi. http://xtronics.com/reference/convert.htm

Here is the thing I was waiting for....

This is completly stock.... for a non VVT-i 1ZZ-FE, or close to with all the stock info I was aware off.
http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/...1zz-festock.jpg

This is stock airflow with the cams only.
http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/...z-fecamonly.jpg

This is the cams, with ITBs (note that the CFM numbers are 4 times as high because it has 4 runners) so in fact it has the same amount of air feeding in the cylinders
http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/...-fetomspecs.jpg

This is the previous except flowing 20% more then stock, so it's an educated guess on the flow numbers.
http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/...pecsairflow.jpg

This is the last with 3000$ worth of stock (big bore and high compression)
http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/...ebigborecam.jpg

So according to this, I would make something between 160 to 170 outta my setup, which is pretty neat and the big bore kit is a complete waiste of money.

Tom

1.5 inch HG equals about 20 inch of water or 0.735 PSI, I'm just not used in seeing mesurement at that pressure. As I can understand, the engine would make more power but the more you move toward a 100-100 the less vaccum you create and the less reading the ECU gets from the MAP sensor.

As soon as you have everything tunned up giving STOCK performances, using all the stock numbers I gave you and only tunning the air flow and other parameters like intake type etc..., can you post pictures of you results? I'm very curious about it. And then, post the picture of my setup's curve, with my cams set at 100-98 timing, 110-108 and the one with full VVT-i advance.

Post the CFM numbers you end up with, i'll take out my calculator and do my homeworks on this.

BTW, I was wondering if you could send me your sim? it could be of good use

Tom

sure, add the custom exhaust, put the small tube header with open exhaust (de-cat)

that's weird that a higher displacement would be that little of an improvement..there's gotta be a way to tune to better take advantage of bigger displacement and higher compression

Yep the bigger bore in a stock setup add to friction in the bore, since it has more surface area. So in upping the bore by a so small figure (compare to stroke), you produce more friction up and down the bore and not a lot more displacement. That's why you gotta unsleash more power somewhere else in order to produce bigger numbers, but by using those same mods on the normal bore setup, you get almost the same numbers.

I got the whole headflow numbers right, according to bench flow numbers and this is the final setup I got, using 270 cams 10mm lift and 108-110 timing, and all that, using the same airflow as stock setup...

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/...0stdairflow.jpg

...although, by doing some basic math, it's easy to see that the throttle body area on my ITBs setup is a little more than double the stock TB, so Airflow will most likely be a lot higher. Only time will tell if that will reflect in the torque curve.

Tom

so big bore is not worth it? just go with the piston/cams of choice dependin on a na or turbo setup?

Why does the graph say that the short block is a 1.6L , Isnt it supposed to be a 1.8L??

if there was an doesn't have an 1.8 option

tommyboy send me your 1zz-fe stock and cam ones, I wanna run something with a turbo charger...

momrjam @ hotm ail dot com

Wouldnt that effect the outcome of the results ??

for more HP yes

I'll sound a bit stupid here but how the heck am'I suppose to do that, like I told in my first post, I'mreal good with car but a complete ass with computer....

On an other note, I've just received my ITBs friday, off of a AE101. They are 44mm and come with all the vaccum and sensors. I will be off to the junkyard on wednesday to get all the sensors I need (from a 98-99 rolla) plus and intake manifold to use the bolting flange. We will see if their is a way to just shave the flange off of the stock 4age manifold of if I need to make my own runners and bolt the TBs directly on the runners. The later will be more complicated since I will need to make some plumbing for the vaccum line, VSV, MAP, PCV and IAC, which are all alreaddy in place on the 4age manifold, plus the fact that the intake came with 4 stock injectors, so the ability to use 8 sequantial injectors is also apetizing. All will depend on the overall width of the thing and the distance between each ports. Let's all hope that they are no more than 1/4 inch apart on the 1zz than they are on the 4age but I haven't verified yet.

I'll give you guys news and get you the picture of the thing. Everything is worked out on papers now, I just need to make it happen.

P.S. to whoever told me that a high duration cam and 100 hp/liter on this engine wouldn't be streetable, how does 148 ft/lbs at 4500rpm sounds to you, plus the fact that according to the dyno sim, stock torque of 125 ft/lbs is achieved at around 3000 rpm.... but I know, it's just a sim, stay tuned for REAL numbers....

Tom

Guys, this is one of the best tuning threads on this forum, so please take a second to rate this thread.

when I saw the power developed with 270 270 cams tommy boy mentioned I just had to look for a simulator (the best one)

and I runned the numbers and they matched perfectly....

and now on the how too to send me the 1zz-fe dyno file....

what do you have for emailing? hotmail or yahoo or gmail?

they're all basically the same, make a new email (or compose in yahoo) and click on attachment (or attach file) and look in the my documents folder for the 1zz-fe.dyn file or however you saved the stock (or the ITB cams one)

I just need the airflow and minor cam details

http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/c...ota_1zz_fe.html
basically stage 2 cams for this rolla

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/mwr_v...ota_1zz_fe.html
valve spring recommended for long time duration of those cams

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/mwr_v...ota_1zz_fe.html
if you wanna do the whole head and reduce hot spot and insurance against broken valves and high rev heat

all that with 6.5~7psi combined with the formentioned cams should be good for some 230~260hp for none lagging all torquey engine

without breaking the bank.... that much....

if going turbo, there's FI cams

The biggest problem with the 1zz is the head design the intake manifld is very well designed..with that being said you should port match the manifold. I have seen a few people swap the 2zz manifold on a 1zz but you need to modify it, not worth it. the celica throttle body is 70mm and the rolla is 60 not a big deal.

I myself have stage 2 cam sH/C piston new valve springs, greddy emange Ult, and I/E/H I put down close to 150. the bore kit that Monkey Wrench Racing offers is very good. that is one of the best sites/shops for 1zz components. They also sell race build 1zz engines but will cost you upwards of 4K...with that said I know a guy around my way with a 387 whp 03 corolla thats turbo'd built at Monkey Wrench Racing.

Oh yeah ITB on the 1zz is pointless and it's been done on Newcelica.org..noth worth it

achieving 250 n/a hp is not impossible but not probale. ive seen fully build 2zz engines barely make 220 whp

im sure if you dont push it to the limit it'd be fine.

just speculating, the stock engine is very reliable but if it had beefed up internals i would think it'd be even more reliable as long as you dont constantly push it

i'd be kinda worried about chassis flex lol