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Engine *TURBO* CEL says I'm running lean

Discussion in 'Powertrain' started by RacingSolution, Sep 8, 2004.

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    RacingSolution New Member

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    *TURBO* CEL says I'm running lean

    So I got a cel the other day after I floored it getting on a freeway on-ramp... went down to autozone and picked up an OBD2 reader... hooked it up and it said P0171 Running too lean Bank1 ...

    So this makes sense why I was getting detonation and why my internals aren't as strong as they used to.

    I checked the plugs while I was messing around and they are in normal condition.. I noticed they were Autolite 3923's .. anybody have any experiences with these?

    Im using the rising rate fuel system for the fuel management .. so the question is... should I just plop in bigger injectors... or take it a step further and plop in an emanage or safc... I'm on a limited budget because I dont want to spend a bunch of money on the corolla anymore.. but I want it to run well..
    RacingSolution, Sep 8, 2004
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    corollarider19 New Member

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    i dont have much experiance with turbos. but ive heard a lot of discussion from the guys at toyota that work in the shop one of which has a turbo rolla. he told me that he put in camry injectors and ran a safc and his car runs perfect
    corollarider19, Sep 8, 2004
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    TurboRolla21 Guest

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    Um, we have been through this before haven't we? I am running the SAFCII and I still had to get Camry injectors and it started running lots better...Try that.
    TurboRolla21, Sep 8, 2004
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    toyotaspeed90 New Member

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    or go megasquirt..... cheaper & better than those bandaid computers
    toyotaspeed90, Sep 8, 2004
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    sean2sean Member

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    do you know whats the size of the stock of our injectors?

    and would those injectors work for a 02 1zzfe?

    whats the part number?

    thanks
    sean2sean, Sep 8, 2004
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    weed101160 New Member

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    you need to get dyno'd to see where your a/f stands
    weed101160, Sep 8, 2004
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    turbo4age Love to Hate me

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    turbo4age, Sep 8, 2004
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    JspeXAE102 Well-Known Member

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    wideband o2 sensor
    JspeXAE102, Sep 8, 2004
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    toyotaspeed90 New Member

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    wideband or even a split second a/f ratio gauge will help
    toyotaspeed90, Sep 8, 2004
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    LoSx New Member

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    either dyno and get emanage or wideband and get emanage.. its a lot better then safc... from there you can find out if you need new injectors idf yours are maxed out..
    LoSx, Sep 9, 2004
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    TurboRolla21 Guest

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    The size of our stock injectors are 260cc and the Camry injectors I have are either 330cc or 360cc. I am not sure the part number b/c I didn't buy them I just took them off another car.
    TurboRolla21, Sep 9, 2004
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    RacingSolution New Member

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    Damn .. 85% at 4.5psi .. no wonder.... Travis, besides the camry injectors, are there any injectors cheaper than 100/ea? I'm tempted to just find someone who turbo'd a camry and replaced their injectors so I can get their old ones for cheap... in the mean time, I just turned my boost down .. car feels healthier already.
    RacingSolution, Sep 9, 2004
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    sean2sean Member

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    hey brian... let me know when ur gonna get em injectors and emanage... ill get em with u...

    and travis... u know the injector specs for the 02 rolla? 200cc? or wut?
    sean2sean, Sep 9, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    indeed that sucks...

    brian, run an eManage - use some bigger injectors and use the eManage to compensate for it and tune your injector duty cycles off the greddy boost sensor, its much cleaner and easier to define how much extra fuel when under boost... (nice when you clamp your stock MAP too)

    Trust me, my 98 has been running great with it for almost a year now.
    vortex, Sep 9, 2004
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    matadorCE Guest

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    duty cycle on the injectors?? get properly sized injectors since the stock ones are probably not up for the job.
    matadorCE, Sep 9, 2004
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    Shlorowla Guest

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    Hey Rolla21 what year camry injectors did you need to get for your car?


    Shlorowla, Sep 9, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    98/99 are 200cc
    vortex, Sep 9, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    The stock 98/99 injectos hit 85% duty cycle @ 4.5 psi

    And yes, you want to add more duty cycles to larger injectors based on boost. For instance... you have say stock injectors @ 200cc/min and you install the max eManage recommends (150% over) and you're running 500cc injectors (btw, 550's and 600's work fine if you set it up right). If you car is running at 85% duty cycle at 4.5 psi on 200cc/min injectors, you immediately drop down to 32.5% duty cycle @ 4.5psi which means you can then compensate with fuel up to roughly (and im just doing raw numbers in my head here) 14 psi (going off 80% duty cycle on 500cc/min and I'm also using ~40-45 psi of fuel pressure as well) ... at that point I'd probably use the eManage to run a couple sub injectors set to activate on boost signal (and tuned according to how much fuel is needed) and you can manage well up into 20-25psi at that point depending on the size of the two subs you run. Now do keep in mind that base run, depending on a TON of things including how your car is running, altitude, blah blah blah... you could gain or lose the ability to run more boost... this is just avg and as I said, off the top of my head...
    vortex, Sep 9, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    Here's how it works on that.

    * your fuel pump is set to run at a set rate for fuel pressure.. typically this is ~45-50psi

    * with 200cc injectors, you're outputting 200cc @ 45psi of fuel pressure
    (i think places like rcengineering use 43.5 as their base for test)

    * with 550cc injectors, you're outputting 550cc @ 45psi of fuel pressure

    the bigger the injector the bigger the squirt of fuel - its your fuel pumps job and regulators job to make sure that at all times the pressure stays the same.

    Some people have gotten away with boosting cars by upping the pressure on the fuel rail (Rising Rate FMU's do this) so you can force more fuel through the injector with each pulse - for some reason i have NO clue why people think this is a really good way to go, technically you're pushing the injectors too hard *I* think - but thats just me... (it also cant be good on the fuel lines and fuel rails which are tested at specific pressure tolerances)

    Anyway, back to the story at hand. When you install larger injectors - your fuel pump DOES have to work harder to maintain pressure. While this is normally fine if you're upgrading to slightly larger injectors, it may not be for a very large jump. This is why when you do a really large jump in size on the injectors its a good idea to upgrade the fuel pump as well to something that is capable of outputting the necessary fuel. 255lph pumps are good for this on our cars since they can actually maintain correct pressure on injectors larger than our cars should ever need.

    hope that helps.
    vortex, Sep 10, 2004
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    sean2sean Member

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    thanks for the info travis... and btw... what do you think of donkeyman's statement? would we need to increase fuel pump pressure?

    i believe stafford said that he would need to change some springs in his fuel system... after i change injectors and add an emanage.

    so what gives?
    sean2sean, Sep 10, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    re-read my post in reply to donkeymans... :)

    I said its possible to run larger injectors with stock pump, but to keep in mind you'll be making your pump work harder to maintain pressure - so an upgrade is recommended.
    vortex, Sep 10, 2004
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    toyotaspeed90 New Member

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    if they're top feed.... find a 7mgte supra in a junkyard.... they're 440's then send them to witchunter to have them cleaned and tested properly
    toyotaspeed90, Sep 10, 2004
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    corolla_man_j Guest

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    <offtopic>
    how are you turning your boost psi down, are you running an internal wastegate set to 4.5 psi? I have a t25, but the internal wastegate is set to ~8 psi, and I know that a boost controller can only make your psi increase. And will a t3 wastegate actuator fit a t25?
    </offtopic>
    corolla_man_j, Sep 10, 2004
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    donkeyman New Member

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    i gotta question for you guys kinda offtopic...So if you put in the new bigger injectors, do you have to get a higher rate fuel pump or not? I know we have returnless fuel lines, so all the fuel that gets sent gets dumped into the engine. Just curious really.
    What im thinking is (prolly wrong tho:( if you put bigger injectors on it, it would still pump the same amount of fuel to the engine since you arent putting a higher rate fuel pump on it. Am I right? OR wrong? I think I'm wrong...but just for arguments sake, tell me. I wont argue. Does that make sense?
    donkeyman, Sep 10, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately $100/injector seems to be the magic number. I recommend Power Enterprise (what i have) if you do purchase. The camry idea is nice too for short term/ medium boost... You also notice something funny about when your injector duty cycle is technically maxed out? 4.5 psi (which oddly enough seems to be the max the stock MAP sensor can take before its voltage is maxed and your car starts doing wierd stuff, hehe)
    vortex, Sep 10, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    those are higher - same as the 00 - so turborolla's 260 number should be correct for yours. When vvti was added they upped the injectors a little.
    vortex, Sep 10, 2004
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    sean2sean Member

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    oh damn... when i read it... ur post wasnt there...

    haha... my bad... u beat me to it then... i see ur response...
    sean2sean, Sep 10, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    p|-|33r!
    vortex, Sep 10, 2004
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    RacingSolution New Member

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    I belive our internal wastegate is 4.5psi as well... When I mean turn the boost down, I mean from 7.5 to 6 .. I dont know about the wastegate actuator's being swappable or not..
    RacingSolution, Sep 10, 2004
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    this is one reason i dont like internal wastegates, hehe ... if i wanna mess with my base boost level, i just change out a spring in my Tial... currently it's at 4.5psi and I use boost controller to up the pressure. I wanted mine at 4.5 because should there ever be a problem and I drop boost off completely, 4.5 is supported 100% by stock everything.
    vortex, Sep 10, 2004
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