Engine Turbo a theory (makes ur head hurts)

system_error..... how do you have a t3 turbo intercooled AND 4-1 tubular header?

Turbo a theory (makes ur head hurts)

I have been trying to understand how a turbo works. Gathering info on the flaws on the sf kit on the corolla.Turbo1zz or Jeff has been very helpfull ,thank you, on answering my questions.

I have found this site on honda and I think this will help us answer some problems we are having on Turboing corolla.

correct me if i am wrong but after talking to Jeff and reading off from this site.
I came up with a theory( i dunno if it is right though)

Sf kit could possibly run without any risk of engine damage under 6psi
and trying to run it on higher boost will cause damage due to lack of fuel coming in. I am not sure how the alcohol injection works and how well it burns but running 10 or 12 psi without correct AF ratio( might be lean or rich), can harm the engine.

To run hhigher boost on sf kit will require larger injectors higher fuel pump and greddy emanage or profec ( i dunno exactly which one) to controll them.to supply more fuel that is needed,preventing running to lean or rich.

"The SF kit was making my ignition timing advance so far that it was causing detonation causing internal damage."Jeff. placing the maf or map sensor on the pipe going into the turbo will prevent the map sensor from sensing boost.
but i dunno where the vaccum hose will go though?

i have question?
could you tune the sf kit with an e manage controlling the stock injectors to create a correct AF ratio at any psi level between 0-6psi

read on the the link maybe you guys can add something.. my head hurts its already 5 am.
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfa...html#Management

that seemed like a bunch of random thoughts..... what exactly were the questions and what did you need help with?

You can use the emanage on any application.. I'm seriously considering installing one as well as high flow injectors... I've been talking to some companies about turbo friendly parts for the corolla's... I'll post in the forum if anything comes about from it.

hey that would be great! did you get any check engine light or engine dying on you? I am planning to move the map sensor on the intake pipe going into the turbo to prevent it from sensing boost.Do you think this will affect the fuel system of sf

sorry mayn if it is confusing all i am saying is

Would sf kit run better a more engine friendly if the map sensor is placed on the intake goin into the turbo instead on the pipe goin into the throttlebody.According to that thread it is not good for the map sensor to sense boost thats why they have the missing link.

My engine light comes on...and my car sometimes dies when coming to a stop.

does it go away or just stay there?you can get the code for that check engine light to see where the problem is.
i believe kragen let people use their code reader for free.

did you change your injectors? can you tune your stock injectors with the e manage?

i dont know how alcohol injection work with higher boost pressure. cuz when alcohol is combusted it puts more oxygen in the chamber. but when turbo"ing" with high pressure using alcohol injection its going to make it more lean cuz of alcohol. why not just bet bigger injectors and a larger fuel pump.

A lot of this has already been stated but I thought i'd post what I posted over at NewCelica.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thougt i'd post some info on the SF fuel system for those wondering what exactly it does... I think the system can work quite well on low boost applications but anyone wanting to up the boost should read up and consider the options before doing so...

Here are some advantages and disadvantages with each type of fuel system.

FMU (Fuel Management Unit)
Advantages: Inexpensive
Disadvantages: Fuel "curve" is always a straight line.

Additional Injector Controller
Advantages: Behaves as stock when not under boost
Disadvantages: Requires additional injectors

Piggy-Back
Advantages: Smooth A/F curves can be obtained over a wide range of engine speeds
Disadvantages: Based on fooling your engine ECU (not an elegant solution)

Stand-Alone
Advantages: Typically very programmable - can reach optimal performance
Disadvantages: Expensive

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This information was taken from a turbo encyclopedia site:

Boost Dependent Fuel Pressure Regulator with Stock Injectors

With this option the stock Honda injectors, which are 245cc, are used with a boost dependent fuel pressure regulator. A boost dependent fuel pressure regulator increases the fuel pressure a set amount for every PSI of increased boost pressure. Most boost dependent fuel pressure regulators are modeled on Vortech's Fuel Management Unit (FMU) and look like the below picture. In most applications a 12:1 ratio FMU will suffice. This means that at any given boost PSI the fuel pressure will be 12 times that amount plus the stock fuel pressure which is about 40 PSI. For example, at 6 PSI the fuel pressure added by the FMU will be 72 PSI, added to the stock 40 PSI, will be 112 PSI of total fuel pressure. As you can see this is a lot of fuel pressure for the stock fuel system to take. Because the system is stressed so much more than it was designed for it is more likely that there will be a failure, especially an injector failure. If an injector failure occurs, sever engine failure will occur. The maximum safe limit for this setup is 6 PSI, going over this amount of boost will increase the chances of an injector ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stafford chose to use an FMU for its low cost and ease of installation and has stated this in person and on the forums. I am in no way saying a FMU can not work, I am just stating that it has its limitations and is not the best solution. The FMU is not programmable and only supplies a fixed amount of fuel for a given pressure. This is fine for low boost applications but the majority of people buying these kits are not going to keep their boost at 7psi (5psi realistically) or under. There are people on this very board who are running 7psi+ on a daily basis and the FMU setup is not meant for this kind of power. In a returnless system running a MAP with missing link or voltage clamp you could get away with it but not in our cars. I have spoken with quite a few people who have been building and installing turbo systems longer than Stafford or I have been alive. These guys were blowing up motors and learning the hard way when I was a baby in diapers…. I have a great deal of respect for these people and thank my lucky stars to have been given the opportunity to learn from their years and years of expertise. I can assure you that come January, my car is going to be running 12’s safely and reliably as one can running 12’s on a car that was meant to go a hundred thousand miles not a hundred miles an hour…

I think that if Stafford could get his business straight and hire the right people for the job he can go far. I for one do not wish any problems on Mike or his team. I went through my period of hating Mike and wanting to spend my every day taking him down but that will do nothing more than make me look like an ass and that is not what I want. I wish Mike and his crew the best in their future ventures.

ALSO!!!

People running the SF kit may want to look into J&S' Individual Cylinder Knock Control System.

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html

Just running fuel management is not a good idea if you intend on increasing the boost past 5 or 6 psi. Detonation will claim your motor in short order without you even knowing till it is too late.

J&S Units retards the timing on individual cylinders making detonation a thing of the past with levels up to 11psi. The unit installs between the ECU and the coils and uses a dedicated knock sensor to detect and retard timing on individual cylinders...

Well worth the money when you consider a new motor would cost five times what this thing costs...

I hope all this makes sense as it really is late and I can ramble on a bit when i'm sleepy...

Jeff

i talked to mike he said if you moved the map sensor to the intake pipe going to the turbo you would have a vacum coming into the pipe too. He said i won't work. I don't no where that vacum line's other end will be attached to. I didn't quite understand him when he was explaining it

What year is your car? Do you have a MAP or a MAF sensor on your car??? When we spoke you said MAF so I am assuming you have a 1zz-fe w/vvti which has a MAF sensor.

If your car has MAP then you would not mount it on the intake tube...

Then nothing you said stafford said makes any sense at all... Our cars do not have MAP sensors. There is NO vacuum line associated with the MAF sensor so be very very careful what information you are getting from stafford.

i have 2001 with the vvti

huh? well easy, I have a t3 turbo....which is mounted on a tube (not log) exhaust manifold, and then there is the intercooler. hrmmm

well then how come on seans car there is a vacuum line coming out of his charge intake.That is according to sean when i asked him

here is the picture of his car. there are two lines coming into his pipe one is alocohol injection and the other one is the vacuum line. HE has the 2001 so i guess he has MAF too http://vvti.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3089

The vacuum line has NOTHING to do with the MAF or where it is placed