Engine tick tick tick:( damn woodpecker

tick tick tick damn woodpecker

my engine is ticking bad . Any ideas? here are some sound bytes of outside with the hood up and inside the car .

www.petermwhite.net/test/SoundFile/

Holy shit, that sounds bad. I thought the little ticks and shifting in my car was annoying (panels moving etc), but that I would get looked at asap.
Passing listeners here thought it was valve springs

wwat yr corolla, sounds like ur cams and valve springs are ticking

you're telling me!

I know! It sounds like a riding lawnmower!

Here is the story:
2001 Rolla S CAI 93,000
1. Started to tick.
2. Pulled over and checked oil. No oil light ever came on.
3. Oil was LOW, so I walked to the gas station and added oil immediatedy.
4. Changed oil, filter, had engine flush done.
5. Added 2 liters of detergent is supposed to unstick lifters. Nothing.
6. Gas? Added 93 and octane booster.
7. Took it to Kendall Toyota, Pinecrest, FL. The diagnostic: "Customer complains of engine knock. Diagnostic: Engine Knock. Fee: $88.73" Didn't even take the valve cover off.

It runs perfect, no power loos at all. But obviously I don't want this to turn into a catastrophy.

Now I'm debating whether to find someone who will disect it up to the head, or to just swap that thing out and go with a junkyard engine!

Ideas?

Felix

just swap new motor....

I would 1st of all check the oil pressure - a bad bearing will usually cause oil pressure to drop.

This SOUNDS like a bad rod bearing. Typically, bad connecting rod bearings will knock when revving the engine and is usually worse when giving it light throttle and are not very audible when revs are falling.

I just don't really think it's anything in the head....might be, though. Valves or springs usually will tick constantly, rather being worse when giving it gas or letting off the gas.

If it is a conrod bearing, then HOPEFULLY, it would be as simple as replacing the bearing. However, the crank journal may have been damaged - even in that case, you could remove the crankshaft and have the journal resurfaced and an oversized bearing placed.

I'd remove the oil pan and remove the conrod bearing caps and look at them to see...it's not TOO big of a deal, really.

Does it make this noise when the engine is cold, also?? Or is it just when warmed up? Is it worse with light throttle, heavy throttle, or no throttle?

Late,
Trav

i'd prolly say its a bearing..

thanks..

Hey I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has taken a listen to my archives. I'm a poor ass law student and all of this is definately going to help me not get totally dicked.

CorollaUlev:
-No difference between cold and warm, very consistent.
-Light throttle definately triggers it. Sound is almost nonexistant at heavy throttle.
-Sound is the worst in 3rd gear, between 2500 and 3500 rpms.
-1st gear - clackety
-2nd gear - more clackety
-3rd gear - most clackety
-4th gear less clakety
-5th glear hardly clakety

I think that has most to do with the RPMS and nothing transmissionwise.

F

Did some research....here's what I came up with. I'm thinking rod knock like the others. That's probably where the greatest amount of stress is located during combustion - also probably the first part that's going to give out when it's starved of oil.

"Rod knocks are loudest at higher speeds (over 2500 RPM) Feathering the gas pedal may result in a distinctive back rattle between 2500 and 3500 RPMs.

Bad rod knocks may double knock if enough rod bearing material has been worn away allowing the piston to whack the cylinder head in addition to the big end of the connecting rod banging on the crankshaft rod journal. It will sound like a hard metallic knock (rod) with an alternating and somewhat muffled aluminum (piston) klock sound.

Determining which cylinder contains the noisy parts may be aided by shorting out the plug wires one by one with a common low voltage test light. Now you won't get the bulb to light up but it is a convenient way to short the cylinders without getting zapped or damaging the ignition coil. Attach the alligator clip to a convenient ground, away from fuel system components, and pierce the wire boots at the coilpack or distributor end of the wire. If the noise is changed when the plug wire is shorted to ground, you can figure that the problem is in the reciprocating bottom end parts. (piston, wrist pin, connecting rod or connecting rod bearing) The reason the sound changes is that when you short the cylinder plug wire you are stopping the combustion chamber explosions that are slamming the piston downward making the inside of the big end of the connecting rod bang against it's connecting rod journal. Or in the case of piston slap, no explosion changes how the piston is shoved hard sideways against the cylinder wall.

If you get a change in the sound when you short a cylinder out it may become moot as to what the problem is because the oil pan and cylinder head must be removed to correct the problem. [Generally speaking, an engine with damage to reciprocating parts (pistons, rings, connecting rods, wrist pins or rod bearings) and more than 70 thousand miles is not cost effective or risk free enough to attempt to repair. Replacing a crankshaft, for example while the rest of the engine has 70k perfectly maintained miles on it is risky enough but whatever killed the crank has scored the rings and packed the lifters with debris and smoked the piston pin bosses etc.]

If the sound doesn't change, look at parts other than the reciprocating ones. In many cases of rod-knock or piston slap, more than one is banging so even if you eliminate the noise from one rod the other one will still be a-banging away with a different, more singular tone.

There is a real nice yet little known test for piston slap I'll pass along. Some test results can be mixed or ambiguous but this one is 100% and I've never seen it wrong after using it for the last 10 years.

When the engine is cold, the aluminum piston is small in comparison to it's iron cylinder. Therefore the rather hollow slapping noise will be loudest first thing in the morning. After the engine warms up, the aluminum piston heats up faster than it's iron cylinder, cutting down on the excessive clearance between the piston and cylinder wall.
So, the test is this:
First thing in the morning, start the engine up and run it for 15 seconds while you listen carefully and memorize the sound and it's intensity. Shut it down quickly, pull the spark plugs and put two squirts of motor oil into each cylinder. Reinstall the plugs, fire the engine up again and listen.
If you have piston slap the noise will have been greatly reduced or even eliminated…..for 15 or 20 seconds that is, and then your nightmare noise will come back.

Valve train noises generally are loudest up to 1500 rpms. Lifters are also misdiagnosed commonly as the source of many noises when in reality they are quite trouble free. Dirt contamination on a sludged engine is the number one cause of true lifter noises, low oil pressure is number two, . Whatever you do, don't put engine flush in a sludged engine! We call it "Instant rod knock" because of the way it overloads the oil filter to the point of opening the filter bypass valve, flooding and destroying the engine bearings with mud. The only safe way to clean a sludged engine is to accelerate the oil changes and let the detergent in the oil do the cleaning at a controlled rate. Like every 500 miles

By the way, if you have low oil pressure, don't bother putzing around with the valve train because the damage you find will be the result of low oil pressure and will return after you spend a bunch of money on valve train parts.

Over nineteen engines out of twenty that we tear down with low oil pressure do NOT have bad oil pumps but have worn out bearings and journals so quit with the wishful thinking about just putting a pump in it. Think about it, usually, an oil pump is two dumb ol' iron gears spinning around immersed completely in oil. EVERYTHING else in the engine has a tougher time of it than the oil pump. Worn camshafts, low oil pressure, worn rocker pivots, very loose valve guides, worn rocker arms….."

?

I'll do that test to see if that narrows things down. However, if I drop the oil pan, does anybody know what relevant parts I'll have access to? I understand that I'll be able to the SEE the bearings and use plastigague. But via this route, is it possible to put in new bearings?

Moreover, what other, besides bearing damage can you visualize and/or replace after dropping the oil pan?

I'm considering doing this with a mechanic but I want to know much I can potentially replace without taking everything down. It seems like a good idea to do this if i can make a fair assesment and consideration of pronouncing the engine not worthy of repair.

F

To remove the crankshaft, you must separate the engine and transmission to remove the flywheel. You can remove and repace rod bearings with the crankshaft still in the car. You can rotate the crankshaft and move the piston up and down in the cylinder manually to be able to visualize the crank journals. I do not know if you can remove the piston with the crank still in place - I seriously doubt it. You should be able to get a good look at the cylinder wall, though to assess for scuffing.

The block ends at the centerline of the crankshaft and there is the aluminum main bearing girdle which has cast-in-place iron main bearings. Not sure what's required to get that off. It may be as simple as unbolting it and dropping it to look at the main journals and bearings - i don't know.

Late,
Trav

tjust take the head off and pull them out and have the bad pistion /rod to get checked out and see if the bottem of the rods are still round.When I had 2 rods knocking in mine I just bought a new matching set and much more.

The cheaper way is just get another engine. It is alot less hassle.

definatly sounds like "Rod knock" if you guys remember about a month ago my cars engine got wasted driving threw a flood...after pumping all the water out and taking the head off i found out i had two bent rods...it sounded exactly like this clip that we just heard here...well to be honest this engine sounded worse than mine which is kinda scary seeing how mine was filled with a gallon of water, and his was not....corolla1zz dose bring up a valid point your better off just getting a new motor...depending on where you live i can get you a motor with 6000 miles on it for 600 bucks. i was going to get it from him but he does not accept any secure methods of payment. i.e paypal ect...good luck if your interested just send me a PM and i will link you the guys email address threw there

Since so many have this problem, or have had it, doesn't it appear that there is a problem with these engines? Whether it's bad oil distibution or whatever.

I don't see how buying a new engine is cheaper than replacing your bearings.

Red 03 Corolla S - You were looking at the engine for your car, so wouldn't that mean it wouldn't bolt right in for a 00-02? I have an 01 and need to fix my engine.

u need an 01 or 02 for yours they have the vvt-i. If the rod is knocking like that i bet you the rod needs to be machined. They do have an bad oil distibution. I had a machine shop redue mine. He rework my oil passages and he tweeked my new oil pump to move more valume. forge crank and crowler rods and wesco pistions, I had a bunch more done to it but it cost me almost 9k in my engine. I know now that I can run the piss out of it now. Like the machine shop told me "what do you expect out of a family car that is not made to be a race car" the engine is not made to hold up to us young folks which belives in 2 speeds , fast faster or have a lead foot. my dad always told me that but you learn from your mistakes at least I did.

Scary! I redline my '03 corolla many times in any given day. Some days, all I ever do is keep the gas pedal to the floor. HARD driving! However, 55,000 miles and the oil pressure is fine. No bizarre engine noises. Guess I can be expecting to throw a rod any day now, huh?

Trav

some last longer than others mine almost made it 69kbefor 2 rods started to knock.Here are a set of bearings that came out of mine.

Damn!!! How f*d up was your crank? And where did you find a new one and cost?

the machinest bought a new forged crank becouse I wanted the strongest bottem end I can have. I think it was 380 but not sure