News Ex-Gang leader denied clemency

Ex-Gang leader denied clemency

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/12/williams.execution/index.html

What does everyone think? Were they right in dening his request or were they wrong?

I have mixed emotions on this one because he did wrong by doing the killings and pretty much establishing the notorious Crips street gang, but he turned around and started to do something positive with his life and for others as well.

eh I guess he should've known better and I guess he'll have to deal and live with the consequences you know.

so his help to prevent kids from joining gangs and funding organizations to help keep kids out of gangs, means nothing? They could of at least taken that into consideration.

I see what your saying and I'm not gonna disagree with you that what he's doing now makes his previous actions right. But its not like he's just sitting in jail not doing anything. Just look at Duane Lee Chapman..he was convicted of first degree murder but was given a second chance. Now look at him..he's helping the community by taking criminals off the street. I'm not saying to free Williams but why not give him cut him a break and not put him to death?

actually, reading my response again, I think I can say that I don't agree with it. They should of let him live. Not necessarily free him from jail but keep him on death row and let him do his thing with helping the community.

well I dk man but things are going this way for him for a reason but at least he learned his lesson and turned his life around and he's trying to turn the lives of others around.

I do too depending on who's eyes I look at him through; the teachers and educators eyes, or the family of the victims. Its hard. I think that he has done great things for an anti-gang message, and that kind of tells me that he really is rehabilitated instead of just faking it. The prison system should be one of rehabilitation, not just punichment. It does seem that a lot of people repeat their crimes and whatnot, but I seriously doubt that this man would.

On the other hand, he was convicted of killing four people; shooting one in the back TWICE with a 12-guage shotgun, while he was face down on the floor...

I am just too sappy I think. I would have pardoned him, but I can see both sides.

at least give him life in prison

Well the idealistic purpose of prisons is to rehibilitate people, not only punish them (yes, some people are beyond rehabilitation), and in this case, considering his work while in prison and his anti-gang messages, etc. would point towards the fact that he probably is rehabilitated and very doubtful that he would repeat his crimes if released... but, you can't deny what he did, I mean killing 4 people is nothing to pardon either... so i'm quite split on him... on one side, yes, make him serve out his punishment for what he did (no matter what he did later on in life, he is still accountable)... but.. he's also a person that did alot of good for anti-gang's which would be a bit of a loss too... yeah... no decision here... so we'll go with what the elected officials decided *snickers*

Eye for an eye, I don't see the four people he killed getting resurrected so why should he be allowed to live? And as for his help keeping kids out of gangs that is no reason to let him live, if anything he should be doing that just to die with a somewhat less dirty conscience. That is like saying if Osama Bin Laden helped rebuild the twin towers we would let him live. Hell no! And before you go saying that you can't compare Osama to this guy let me start by saying a Terrorist is a Terrorist, and Gangs are an urban form of terrorism, they fight for terrioroty and kill innocent people in drive-by's. And that’s what really grinds my gears!

I think they should inject him with morphine instead of a lethal drug and put him to sleep for a while. Then transport him to a large airplane hangar that has been converted into a realistic representation of hell. Then wake him up imprisoned in hell. It has to be very realistic. Even enough to scare the shit out of anyone.

... well I donno it was just an idea, maybe that would work on terrorists?

"Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption." He spent how many years on death row? It is now time for him to meet his maker.

I would love to see that happen!

Hm. Ok, I'll see what I can do. We'll have to do some casting for the demons and tourtured souls. Oh, and we'll need a host. You know, I could pull some strings and maybe get Arnold to host it. He owe's me one. It would make him look like the good guy and shutup those pesky anti-death sentence wackos.

Only in California.

Clemency was created for a candidate to look good sometimes... Although arnold might not have taken the popular approach he took the correct one. We have a court system and laws for a reason... When you start granting clemency all over then your are saying screw the laws...

He did the crime and now he gets the punishment... If people opose it so greatly they can try to get their state to stop opposing the death penalty!

I know a lot of peopel are against it but oh well.. For those peopel that do change and do good then whoever the higher power they believe in may take that into consideration.... but he killed 4 peopel that they proved how many more died? How many peopel did he get to kill others... he did a LOT more bad then he did good!

That would be sweet But instead of demons have everyone in the hanger dressed like bloods (crips rival gang) threatening to kill him and his family for no good reason. That should make him piss down his leg, then when everyone gets bored with that take him outside and do drive-by's on him so he can die like his homies. Wow, I'm mean when I'm tired

Eye for an eye is no longer valid.

Now that he's been executed, I wonder if this will spark any violence with the victims families or any other person who denied his request to not be executed. :O\

Nah, its still valid to me

[Thread Hijacked]

What I mean is if you are a Bible reading man, (and I take it then you are not) then you would not have the "eye for an eye" attitude, because it is no longer valid. His crimes were terrible, but the system should be one of rehabilitation, not punishment.

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In my opinion, he tried to help other teens to not join the gangs, because he got caught. If he didnt get caught, you think he would still try to help those teens?

He killed 4 people. They should have shot him when they caught him. I should not be a police officer..ha

He turned his life around and changed his views on gangs, however he never even apologized for the actions which put him in jail in the first place.

In my mind, granting him a second chance would have been like giving Charles Manson a second chance. He commited a serious crime. I have a strong feeling he was responsible for more than just the 4 shootings. He chose his life path, had 20 years to think about, and wrote a book.

Wow...a book. I completely agree with the denial.

I don't read the bible and am not religious. If there was a God and he wanted me to worship him he would come and ask me too instead of having me read a book. That being said I still beleive in eye for an eye. And as for rehibilitation what if that guy killed 4 of your family members? I doubt you would be so supportive of his right to love no matter how religous you are.

Hell yeah

You'd be suprised at how some can forgive...
Funny though that you stand by and use a phrase that comes from a book that you do not read.
Good, you can tell Him that in the end... I'm sure He will see your side of it.


I'm just always suprised at the lack of compassion with people from this board on issues. Everyone's so quick to judge and punish all the time.

Sure he killed 4 people. That is horrible, no doubt. Especially the shotgun in the back, TWICE. ugh. But, someone mentioned that setting him free or letting him have life in prison will not bring back the victims. Well, neither will killing him. If it was someone that had no remorse and did nothing to change their life or the lives of others, then hell yeah, throw the switch. (or needle )
But this guy was doing good things for anti-gang messages. At least let him continue his work behind bars. Who knows how many other people he could have helped? They could have taken the kid off the streets that might shoot one of us dead in the street someday...

Maybe, Might, Could of, Should Of, the guy killed 4 people. Killing him might not bring back the dead people but it will put him in there same shoes which is good enough for me.

I didn't learn Eye for an eye from the bible? Just because the bible has it in there doesn't mean that is where I got it. But if it bugs you that much I'll use Hand for a hand or Foot for a foot, they all mean the same thing. And you didn't respond to my comment about how you would feel if this guy killed 4 of your family members and raped your sister and mother and did any other number of horrifing gang related things. Would you seriosuly still spare his life? And if you did would you be doing it because you thought it was right or to save your ass from the wrath of God? Sorry to sound so anti-religous here but sheesh.

Well thank God good enough for you doesn't matter.

Actually, I did answer...

I'm guessing you would like me to ellaborate. Sorry.


I never said you learned from there. But that is where most people know it from unless you are a Biblical Scholar, which you are not. You may have heard it from someone or something else, but the phrase originates from the time of Old Testament. Try again.

Yes eye for an eye, foot for a foot, and idiot for an idiot all mean the same thing. It still is a pretty 5-year-old way of thinking.

You mean to tell me that you have compassion for the familes that were killed? But none for a person that can completely change their thinking? That takes a great deal of effort.

He didn't apologize because he felt he was innocent ever since he got put in jail. he said he was framed, but we will never know if its true. You're comparing Williams to Manson? thats two totally different cases AND people. Williams did do wrong by shooting people but he turned around and helped others lead a positive life. People learned from his mistakes. Did Manson ever do that? nope! If Williams didn't do anything positive for the community then teachers and professors wouldn't have acknowledged him for his work. They would of never even nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm sure there were kids out there who looked up to him as a role model. And to think their role model was doing something good and then killed for his mistakes. But like someone said, killing him didn't do anything for anybody. By him staying alive, he could of done alot more for the community. No one ever said to let him go free. he can do his work from behind bars. There have been people who got 2nd chances for alot of things. like my previous post said, look at duane lee chapman. Convicted on 1st degree murder and he was given a 2nd chance and is now helping the community by capturing wanted criminals.

By apologizing for something that serious will usually admit guilt. So why apologize for something you didn't do? I can say that if I didn't do anything wrong but someone else is accusing me of doing it, then I wouldn't apologize for anything.

I wonder if the people he killed were also gang members.

Regardless, I believe capital punishment doesn't make things any better. I don't believe that we are so perfect that we can judge another man to dictate if he lives or dies. We should just separate the criminal from society to protect other people.

Criminals should die by someone's self defense in my opinion.

the people he killed were not gang members. I know one was a chinese business man and another was a store clerk and i forgot who the other two were. but non were gang members.

Wow, you just called the Old Testt a 5-year-old way of thinking You must not be a Biblical Scholar either Anyways you don't have to trash on me dude, I just don't agree with your feelings that everyone should be forgiven for everything. I think that sometimes the punishment needs to fit the crime. And so what if the guy can do good from behind bars. He can also do bad, by that I mean that his life would go to show that murdering, raping gang members can goto jail and don't have to worry about dieing for there crimes and that is the wrong message to send in my opinion. You go ahead and keep thinking that way but my idea of right and wrong comes from instinct, not pen and paper or fear of the almighty.