Engine Brand name gas vs cheap gas

e_andree · Sep 29, 2005

Brand name gas vs cheap gas

FYI:

Does it really make a difference if I fill-up using the cheapest grade? If I'm driving a high-performance car like a Mercedes, Porsche or BMW , does using the lower-grade/cheaper gas hurt the car?

Answer #1: On the newer generation cars? Not necessarily...while some of the higher-performance engines do require a higher-octane gasoline for that maximum performance, but all of these new, computerized-cars are equipped with what are called "knock sensors" which automatically-if they detect "pinging" or "knocking"-which is usually caused by a lower-grade or lower-octane type gasoline, it automatically retards the timing in the engine to offset that.

So the worst that happens if you use a lower-grade/lower-octane gasoline is that you don't get quite the performance that you normally would if you used a higher-octane fuel. Bottom line? No substantial damage should occur to the car.

Knock sensors: Do all cars have them? How new are they? How far back do they go? The more sophisticated European sports sedans have had them since the mid-1980s; they're now incorporated in pretty much all of the computer-controlled cars from the mid-1990s and up. Earlier model cars-especially if it's a carburetor-type vehicle will absolutely not have anything like that.

Question #2: What about the quality of gas you'd buy from a "name brand" retailer, like Mobil or Shell for example-versus cut-rate sellers like Sam's Wholesale Club or Costco or regional bargain sellers that dot the nation. Are we at risk of putting lesser-grades or lower-quality gas that could end hurting our cars?

Answer #2: Not really. The quality of the gasoline today is regulated by the government; it has to meet certain standards...and name-brand is what most people go by because of their heavy advertising. The quality of gasoline really is not that much different anymore, no matter where you buy it.

But here's a tip that could save you some money on a visit to your friendly auto mechanic:

If you pull up to the gas station and see the tanker truck on the premises filling up their tanks, the smartest thing you could do is bypass them today and either go back tomorrow or find another gas station to fill up at right now. Why? Because anytime they re-fill these tanks up, any sediment that may have collected on the bottom of these big, underground tanks will get stirred up and it will get mixed in with the gasoline-something you want to avoid if at all possible. Sediment in your gas tank means clogged fuel injectors and poor performance, or even a visit to the shop.
___________________________________

"You should buy gasoline at a station that sells a lot of gasoline. If a station turns over gasoline often, there is less time for water to accumulate in tanks from air condensation."

"There are differences between gasoline brands, at least for premium grades. Premium is the grade that oil companies use for bragging rights. Major oil companies do not lie about what their gasolines will do, but they often forget to make clear that their premium grade is the gasoline they are referring to in the advertisement. There are not many quality or performance differences between brands of regular-grade gasoline. One reason for this is that the EPA and American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) set standards for regular fuel that are relatively high."

"Distribution methods also limit gasoline differences because, for the most part, oil companies must begin with the same gasoline. The days of each branded station selling gasoline that came from the parent company's refinery ended years ago when pipelines became the major transportation method for gasoline. Now, refineries make gasoline that meets a national specification for each grade and type. That gasoline is pumped out into a pipeline system where that fuel could end up in a competitor's tank because of the timing of demand versus supply into the lines. Detergents are then added at the terminal when the fuel is pumped into tanks or into trucks. So, detergent is the major difference between brands of gasoline and that difference is seen mainly in premium brands."

"Base gasoline is identical. At a typical loading facility, you may see a truck loading Chevron gasoline next to one loading Shell, Texaco, or even unbranded gas. The difference is in the additives. When a driver enters a customer number at the terminal, the computer system recognizes it as a specific branded destination and will automatically inject the additive specific to that customer. Chevron adds Techron, Texaco adds Techroline, and some locations blend 10% ethanol."

"The only significant difference between regular, mid-grade, and premium gasoline is that premium-grade fuel will have higher octane rating than mid-grade fuel and mid-grade fuel will have a higher octane rating than regular-grade fuel. At many gas stations there is also a difference in the amount of additives between the grades. In most cases these additives are designed to keep harmful engine deposits from developing in your engine's combustion chambers."

corollarider19 · Sep 29, 2005

good information eric sticky this

teevee247 · Sep 29, 2005

Nice read... only thing I don't agree with is the knock-sensor part, just because your car has a knock-sensor doesn't make it okay to put 89 instead of 93, what if the knock-sensor is damaged or not working properly, then you get detonation and possible engine damage... from what I read, the knock-sensor is only there as a backup if high octane is not available, and only to get you to a station when you can fill up with high octane...

Ellada · Sep 29, 2005

Not all this is true. I own a convinient store (CITGO) so i have some experience:

e_andree said:

FYI:

Does it really make a difference if I fill-up using the cheapest grade? If I'm driving a high-performance car like a Mercedes, Porsche or BMW , does using the lower-grade/cheaper gas hurt the car?

Answer #1: On the newer generation cars? Not necessarily...while some of the higher-performance engines do require a higher-octane gasoline for that maximum performance, but all of these new, computerized-cars are equipped with what are called "knock sensors" which automatically-if they detect "pinging" or "knocking"-which is usually caused by a lower-grade or lower-octane type gasoline, it automatically retards the timing in the engine to offset that.

if you have a Mrecedes/Porshe/BMW are you going to look to save 2 dollars? if you have the money to afford that, you can afford the extra 5 bucks that will make your car run smoother.

e_andree said:

So the worst that happens if you use a lower-grade/lower-octane gasoline is that you don't get quite the performance that you normally would if you used a higher-octane fuel. Bottom line? No substantial damage should occur to the car.

Can you guarantee that? if my car breaks, will you be held responsible in replacing the engine?

e_andree said:

Question #2: What about the quality of gas you'd buy from a "name brand" retailer, like Mobil or Shell for example-versus cut-rate sellers like Sam's Wholesale Club or Costco or regional bargain sellers that dot the nation. Are we at risk of putting lesser-grades or lower-quality gas that could end hurting our cars?

Answer #2: Not really. The quality of the gasoline today is regulated by the government; it has to meet certain standards...and name-brand is what most people go by because of their heavy advertising. The quality of gasoline really is not that much different anymore, no matter where you buy it.

Not really? He does't sound very confident now does he?
Yes the quality is different. AMOCO has the cleanest gas. You cannot even compare the quality of it with Sam's club with AMOCO.

e_andree said:

But here's a tip that could save you some money on a visit to your friendly auto mechanic:

If you pull up to the gas station and see the tanker truck on the premises filling up their tanks, the smartest thing you could do is bypass them today and either go back tomorrow or find another gas station to fill up at right now. Why? Because anytime they re-fill these tanks up, any sediment that may have collected on the bottom of these big, underground tanks will get stirred up and it will get mixed in with the gasoline-something you want to avoid if at all possible. Sediment in your gas tank means clogged fuel injectors and poor performance, or even a visit to the shop.

Thats a myth. The gas to travel from the tank to your car reservoir, goes through 3 different filters that are replaced twice a year.
___________________________________

e_andree said:

"You should buy gasoline at a station that sells a lot of gasoline. If a station turns over gasoline often, there is less time for water to accumulate in tanks from air condensation."

Newer tanks have sensors in them that if they detect the .01 inch of water, will shut down the pumps. A thing to certainly avoid is going to old gas stations that still use the measuring stick to measure the volume of the tank.

e_andree · Sep 29, 2005

Ellada said:

Not all this is true. I own a convinient store (CITGO) so i have some experience:

if you have a Mrecedes/Porshe/BMW are you going to look to save 2 dollars? if you have the money to afford that, you can afford the extra 5 bucks that will make your car run smoother.

No, but thats not the point of the article.

Can you guarantee that? if my car breaks, will you be held responsible in replacing the engine?

Again, not the point here....this is similar to Passats coming from the factory with a 91 octane minimum required, yet the dealerships are telling their buyers that 87 is alright to use.

Not really? He does't sound very confident now does he?
Yes the quality is different. AMOCO has the cleanest gas. You cannot even compare the quality of it with Sam's club with AMOCO.

How is it the cleanest? Its coming from the same tanks, and additives are added at the extraction process.

Oh, and Im still waiting on an answer about your airplane flying experiences

DeebsTundra · Sep 29, 2005

I can vouch for part of this article. There is a difference in quality of gasolines. The little small private owned gas station by my parent's house had premium gas for 10 cents cheaper than the Shell Station. The small station premium will typically always clog the carb on my bike, where places like Shell or Texaco will not.

vortex · Sep 29, 2005

Stuck for a limited time.

e_andree · Sep 29, 2005

DeebsTundra said:

I can vouch for part of this article. There is a difference in quality of gasolines. The little small private owned gas station by my parent's house had premium gas for 10 cents cheaper than the Shell Station. The small station premium will typically always clog the carb on my bike, where places like Shell or Texaco will not.

I dont see how they can add so many more additives for TEN CENTS increase to the consumer, at a cost of a maximum of 3 cents to the company.

I dont necessarily agree or disagree with the article.....just figured it would bring out a good debate

Ellada · Sep 29, 2005

Amoco's gas is clear like water..LIKE water..not water

my benz dealership said to NOT put anything less than 91..

i didnt know you replied to the airplane thread..will check it out..if i have anything to say i will reply..

hellapinoy · Sep 29, 2005

what i would do is read the owner's manual of the car... whether its a mercedes porsche ferrari... whatever, and use the gas that is said on the manual that i should use...

DeebsTundra · Sep 29, 2005

To be honest, I believe it has to do with the larger more corporation based stations...IE Shell do a more thorough job having the tanks cleaned. I'm not sure exactly what clogged up my carb...but I can tell you that the bike runs terrible on any of the small station's gas. But a tank of VPower will clean it right up, no more sputtering below 2k rpm, no more doggy acceleration.

Back when I could afford putting gas in my truck, I used to notice the same thing, even with FI. The small cheap stations would give me a little less power, and usually a little lower MPG.

e_andree · Sep 29, 2005

Ellada said:

Amoco's gas is clear like water..LIKE water..not water

my benz dealership said to NOT put anything less than 91..

i didnt know you replied to the airplane thread..will check it out..if i have anything to say i will reply..

Ya still didnt answer my question

Ellada · Sep 29, 2005

in this thread? you have't either.

e_andree · Sep 29, 2005

Ellada said:

in this thread? you have't either.

Usually you have to ASK a question to get a reply :superconf Ask a question, and I will answer it

JspeXAE102 · Sep 29, 2005

I dont believe Corollas have knock sensors until either 98 or 2000
Most of the people I know who modify their cars usually disable or move the knock sensors so that it dosen't "interfere with performance" at high revs. (just stating the facts, not recommending it.) I think it would be best to use "better" gas so that the engine dosen't knock at all.

My question is about the additives, are they there to improve engine efficiency/performance or just reduce emissions?

Not that it really matters tbut Vishnu Performance seem to recommend 76 over all others
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=126776
not hard proof, especially because the numbers were from a dynojet, bleh.

e_andree · Sep 29, 2005

JspeXAE102 said:

I I think it would be best to use "better" gas so that the engine dosen't knock at all.

Which is the argument here.....are all gases created equal, or no?

Ellada · Sep 29, 2005

i thought questions ended in question marks...

if you have a Mrecedes/Porshe/BMW are you going to look to save 2 dollars? --refer above for further explanation
Can you guarantee that? if my car breaks, will you be held responsible in replacing the engine?
Not really? He does't sound very confident now does he?
--thats not really a question per say. where did you get that article from? does it come from a legit source?

from a google search it revealed that the "article" you posted looks like one of those chain letters that try to save the left testicle of an ethiopian goat

e_andree said:

Which is the argument here.....are all gases created equal, or no?

i strongly believe NO, and there is no way me or you can prove that

e_andree · Sep 29, 2005

Ellada said:

i thought questions ended in question marks...

if you have a Mrecedes/Porshe/BMW are you going to look to save 2 dollars? --refer above for further explanation

I answered that.

Can you guarantee that? if my car breaks, will you be held responsible in replacing the engine?

IM not the one that wrote the damn article!

Not really? He does't sound very confident now does he?
--thats not really a question per say. where did you get that article from? does it come from a legit source?

Again, I didnt write the article....

i strongly believe NO, and there is no way me or you can prove that

Now answer my question.....you said "AMOCO has the cleanest gas. You cannot even compare the quality of it with Sam's club with AMOCO." Back your statement up with some actual facts, instaed of skirting around the question.

I posted the article up for debate....I didnt write it. I hope you catch on to that fact.

teevee247 · Sep 29, 2005

e_andree said:

I posted the article up for debate....I didnt write it. I hope you catch on to that fact.

We all know you wrote, don't try to hide from that fact Just messing with yah...

JspeXAE102 · Sep 29, 2005

e_andree said:

Which is the argument here.....are all gases created equal, or no?

Since there are more than 1 oil refinery in the us, i'd say no. But I believe the larger gas companies (chevron, 76, shell, etc) has a higher standard of gas due to the top tier agreement

Ellada · Sep 30, 2005

e_andree said:

I answered that.
IM not the one that wrote the damn article!

Again, I didnt write the article....

Now answer my question.....you said "AMOCO has the cleanest gas. You cannot even compare the quality of it with Sam's club with AMOCO." Back your statement up with some actual facts, instaed of skirting around the question.

I posted the article up for debate....I didnt write it. I hope you catch on to that fact.

i never said you wrote the article..i was refeerring to the author of the article.

and your responses were: Not the point of the article.

please someone tell me you remember the commercial that advertized the AMOCO gas being clear like water.

arismd · Sep 30, 2005

Ethanol

e_andree said:

Chevron adds Techron, Texaco adds Techroline, and some locations blend 10% ethanol

I use unleaded gasoline (89 octane) with ethanol because it's cheaper. What does ethanol do to performance/mpg?

fishexpo101 · Sep 30, 2005

arismd said:

I use unleaded gasoline (89 octane) with ethanol because it's cheaper. What does ethanol do to performance/mpg?

Nice thing about ethanol blended with gasoline - it is a proven octane enhancer (makes it cheaper to make higher octane fuels - If I recall, ethanol is something like 110-113 octane by itself).

As for performance - should be the same as regular gasoline or slightly better depending on how they blended the gas. Some places sell E85 (15% gas to 85% ethanol) is usually up there with 100-105 octane. But this mix can confuse some fuel injection systems and carburated apps usually ran rich - alcohol has a much higher vapor pressure than gas - making it desireable in some instances and bad in others. Most see no difference in performance in fuel injected applications other than maybe slightly better knock resistance. Water tends to be absorbed by the mix as well - lessens the chance for gas to freeze on you in the winter.

Most have seen MPG drop a bit with ethanol blended gas - depends on how your system copes with the mix - could be anywhere from a 5% drop to as much as 20% drop in MPG (usually the higher the percentage of ethanol, the greater the drop in economy).

arismd · Sep 30, 2005

fishexpo101 said:

Most have seen MPG drop a bit with ethanol blended gas - depends on how your system copes with the mix - could be anywhere from a 5% drop to as much as 20% drop in MPG (usually the higher the percentage of ethanol, the greater the drop in economy).

I am not sure how much ethanol is mixed by the Hyvee station here. Right now, my automatic goes at least 37 mpg highways with unleaded gasoline-ethanol combination. I haven't used any other type of gasoline so I have no comparison.

asn13oy · Oct 6, 2005

What the heck is Amoco? What about Arco, a BP company?

Nevermind..just did a search on Amoco, it's under the same company as Arco...BP.

Barnacules · Oct 7, 2005

e_andree said:

FYI:

Does it really make a difference if I fill-up using the cheapest grade? If I'm driving a high-performance car like a Mercedes, Porsche or BMW , does using the lower-grade/cheaper gas hurt the car?

Answer #1: On the newer generation cars? Not necessarily...while some of the higher-performance engines do require a higher-octane gasoline for that maximum performance, but all of these new, computerized-cars are equipped with what are called "knock sensors" which automatically-if they detect "pinging" or "knocking"-which is usually caused by a lower-grade or lower-octane type gasoline, it automatically retards the timing in the engine to offset that.

So the worst that happens if you use a lower-grade/lower-octane gasoline is that you don't get quite the performance that you normally would if you used a higher-octane fuel. Bottom line? No substantial damage should occur to the car.

Knock sensors: Do all cars have them? How new are they? How far back do they go? The more sophisticated European sports sedans have had them since the mid-1980s; they're now incorporated in pretty much all of the computer-controlled cars from the mid-1990s and up. Earlier model cars-especially if it's a carburetor-type vehicle will absolutely not have anything like that.

Question #2: What about the quality of gas you'd buy from a "name brand" retailer, like Mobil or Shell for example-versus cut-rate sellers like Sam's Wholesale Club or Costco or regional bargain sellers that dot the nation. Are we at risk of putting lesser-grades or lower-quality gas that could end hurting our cars?

Answer #2: Not really. The quality of the gasoline today is regulated by the government; it has to meet certain standards...and name-brand is what most people go by because of their heavy advertising. The quality of gasoline really is not that much different anymore, no matter where you buy it.

I disagree, some little ma and pop stores will water down the gas to get more money and this will lead to your car running like shit, happened to my neighbor a few weeks ago.

e_andree said:

But here's a tip that could save you some money on a visit to your friendly auto mechanic:

If you pull up to the gas station and see the tanker truck on the premises filling up their tanks, the smartest thing you could do is bypass them today and either go back tomorrow or find another gas station to fill up at right now. Why? Because anytime they re-fill these tanks up, any sediment that may have collected on the bottom of these big, underground tanks will get stirred up and it will get mixed in with the gasoline-something you want to avoid if at all possible. Sediment in your gas tank means clogged fuel injectors and poor performance, or even a visit to the shop.
___________________________________

"You should buy gasoline at a station that sells a lot of gasoline. If a station turns over gasoline often, there is less time for water to accumulate in tanks from air condensation."

"There are differences between gasoline brands, at least for premium grades. Premium is the grade that oil companies use for bragging rights. Major oil companies do not lie about what their gasolines will do, but they often forget to make clear that their premium grade is the gasoline they are referring to in the advertisement. There are not many quality or performance differences between brands of regular-grade gasoline. One reason for this is that the EPA and American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) set standards for regular fuel that are relatively high."

"Distribution methods also limit gasoline differences because, for the most part, oil companies must begin with the same gasoline. The days of each branded station selling gasoline that came from the parent company's refinery ended years ago when pipelines became the major transportation method for gasoline. Now, refineries make gasoline that meets a national specification for each grade and type. That gasoline is pumped out into a pipeline system where that fuel could end up in a competitor's tank because of the timing of demand versus supply into the lines. Detergents are then added at the terminal when the fuel is pumped into tanks or into trucks. So, detergent is the major difference between brands of gasoline and that difference is seen mainly in premium brands."

"Base gasoline is identical. At a typical loading facility, you may see a truck loading Chevron gasoline next to one loading Shell, Texaco, or even unbranded gas. The difference is in the additives. When a driver enters a customer number at the terminal, the computer system recognizes it as a specific branded destination and will automatically inject the additive specific to that customer. Chevron adds Techron, Texaco adds Techroline, and some locations blend 10% ethanol."

"The only significant difference between regular, mid-grade, and premium gasoline is that premium-grade fuel will have higher octane rating than mid-grade fuel and mid-grade fuel will have a higher octane rating than regular-grade fuel. At many gas stations there is also a difference in the amount of additives between the grades. In most cases these additives are designed to keep harmful engine deposits from developing in your engine's combustion chambers."

I think that cheap gas is okay but as a general rule make sure you buy from a corporation, these little quick-e-mart operations are too shadey.

ethanol dries your seals out and destroys motors, I knew someone that actually bought a Geo Metro once and completely blew the motor up running Arco and the mechanic he took it too said it wasn't the first car he had seen that suffered the death of arco.

sxlostv1 · Oct 7, 2005

Arco sucks
Thrifty sucks

Only gas i buy is Shell, 76, Mobil and Cheveron.

SaberJ2X · Oct 7, 2005

texaco premium for my car I can find it cheaper than generic crap... the regular one

e_andree · Oct 7, 2005

asn13oy said:

What the heck is Amoco? What about Arco, a BP company?

Nevermind..just did a search on Amoco, it's under the same company as Arco...BP.

All Amocos are switching over to the BP name....

TO

SaberJ2X said:

texaco premium for my car I can find it cheaper than generic crap... the regular one

Are you turboed? If not, why you running premium?

asn13oy · Oct 7, 2005

You think they'll change Arco over to BP? "BP-AM/PM"

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