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Air Marshal shoots, kills man in Miami

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by e_andree, Dec 7, 2005.

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    e_andree E

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    Air Marshal shoots, kills man in Miami

    Air Marshal Shoots, Kills Passenger
    Confrontation Occurred on Jetway at Miami Airport
    By JOHN PAIN, AP

    MIAMI (Dec. 7) - A passenger who claimed to have a bomb in a carry-on bag was shot and killed by a federal air marshal Wednesday on a jetway to an American Airlines plane that had arrived from Colombia, officials said. No bomb was found in the bag, a U.S. official said.




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    Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle said the dead man was a 44-year-old U.S. citizen. It was the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks that an air marshal had shot at anyone, he said.

    According to a witness, the man frantically ran down the aisle of the Boeing 757 while his wife tried to explain that he was mentally ill and had not taken his medication.

    The passenger indicated there was a bomb in his bag and was confronted by air marshals but ran off the aircraft, Doyle said. The marshals went after him and ordered him to get down on the ground, but he did not comply and was shot when he apparently reached into the bag, Doyle said.

    The shooting occurred shortly after 2 p.m. as the plane was about to take off for Orlando after about two hours on the ground in Miami. "I don't know yet if the passenger had been on the plane and was getting off, or was starting to board the aircraft," airline spokesman Tim Wagner said.

    After the shooting, investigators spread passengers' bags on the tarmac and let dogs sniff them for explosives.

    A U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the information's sensitivity, said authorities examined the bag and found no explosives.

    The concourse where the shooting took place was shut down for a half-hour, but the rest of the airport continued operating, officials said.

    Mary Gardner, a passenger aboard the Orlando-bound flight, told WTVJ-TV in Miami that the man ran down the aisle from the rear of the plane. "He was frantic, his arms flailing in the air," she said. She said a woman followed, shouting, "My husband! My husband!"

    Gardner said she heard the woman say her husband was bipolar - a mental illness also known as manic-depression - and had not had his medication.

    The plane, Flight 924, had arrived from Medellin, Colombia, just after noon. About 105 passengers were scheduled to fly to Orlando, Wagner said.

    Martin Gonzalez, spokesman for Colombia's civil aviation agency, said the flight "left normally with no problems."

    There were only 32 air marshals at the time of the Sept. 11 attacks. The Bush administration hired thousands more afterward, but the exact number is classified.

    Associated Press writers Mark Sherman and Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this
    e_andree, Dec 7, 2005
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    vortex Well-Known Member

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    wow ... personally tho, bipolar or not, i'd rather have an air marshall shoot first and ask questions later if someone threatened they had a bomb. *shrug* personally i hope the woman understands this as well and realizes maybe she should have helped her husband remember to take his medication if he meant so much to her. If she sues, i hope the gov't gives her a big middle finger.
    vortex, Dec 7, 2005
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    e_andree E

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    Seems like the Air Marshals were in the right on this one.....in 4 years, this was the ONLY air marshal shooting, and Im sure this wasnt the only incident since then.
    e_andree, Dec 7, 2005
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    statik New Member

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    Wow... this makes me think of my Dad. He's bipolar and has to take medication. I do have some sympathy. You can't always make sure someone takes their medicine. It just happens to be a very unfortunate situation. If TSA has any compassion it wouldn't be inappropriate for them to take care of funeral expenses and to express some condolence for the guy's family.

    No one was really wrong here. Shit happens.
    statik, Dec 7, 2005
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    teevee247 Well-Known Member

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    In this case, i'll have to side with the Air Marshal, he did his job and he did it right, its unfortunate (it really is) that the man had a mental illness that caused him to blurt out that he had a bomb and start acting up on the plane and try to escape from the air marshall, but how was the air marshall to know that th man was mentally ill? No way to know... he wasn't in the wrong whatsoever so I don't believe even an apology is due int his case (harsh maybe, but that's what I believe imo).
    teevee247, Dec 7, 2005
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    Fgca_rolla milky cocopuffs

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    The marshalls did what they needed to do. He claimed to have a bomb, acted sporadically, and reached into his bag that supposedly carried a bomb when they cornered him. Sucks for the guy and his family, but shit happens like that. I don't know...i guess thats insensitive...
    Fgca_rolla, Dec 7, 2005
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    Paolino SolidTuned

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    I have no idea really, but aren't people like that trained to "shoot to wound" not kill?

    A very unfortunate incident all around. :( If he DID have a bomb, how in the hell could have slipped it past airport scurity what with it beefed up so much now?
    Paolino, Dec 8, 2005
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    teevee247 Well-Known Member

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    If anyone really wants to get a bomb on a plane, it'll get on still...

    Also, when you are shooting at a moving target, its hard to shoot exactly where you want, also, a wound to one person could be fatal to another in the exact same spot..
    teevee247, Dec 8, 2005
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    Fgca_rolla milky cocopuffs

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    You are supposed to shoot to end the threat. In a situation like that you can shoot a guy in the knee and his adreneline will still enable him to run around. If that had happened and he did have a bomb....BOOM! They did what they had to do. Plus, the shot wasn't initially fatal. I don't know where he was shot, but I'd imagine it was in the chest or something. Some where that isn't necissarily fatal, but will drop a person ASAP.
    Fgca_rolla, Dec 8, 2005
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    e_andree E

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    No, they are trained to shoot to end a situation. The air marshals shooting precision program is the most stringent in the US......rightfully so since they are most likely to have to use deadly force in close quarters 30,000 feet off the ground, with many innocent people around the target.
    Taking the extra time, even a split second, to aim at a leg, or an arm, or his hands could be deadly for innocent people or even the air marshal.

    Most academys teach the double or triple tap...one to the chest to start off with, and then you shoot upwards from there.
    e_andree, Dec 8, 2005
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    DaCubanSkillz Active Member

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    I agree with teevee about not having to apologize for anything and about the marshal not knowing if the guy was mentally ill. They can't take any chances. Its not like they're gonna sit there and wonder if there's something wrong with the person or not.

    Cops are trained to shoot to wound (unless they have no choice but to shoot and kill). But with an air marshal, they can't take any chances (IMO). its either 1 person dies or the whole plane goes down. if anyone of you were on that plane, which one would you go for? shoot to kill or shoot to wound knowing he can still set off the bomb?

    I feel bad for the family but they should have A)Taken the medicine with them and/or more then what they're supposed to just in case they run out and B) let the flight attendents know of his condition. That way they can notify the captain so that they are aware.
    DaCubanSkillz, Dec 8, 2005
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    e_andree E

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    Well, they are trained to shoot at the chest.....you can take that anyway you want to. If it makes you feel better thinking that they are trained to "shoot to wound", then so be it.

    Shoot to wound would be a shot to the leg, arm, etc. And the double/triple tap is hardly shoot to wound either.
    e_andree, Dec 8, 2005
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    Paolino SolidTuned

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    Yeah I can see that. I do not think the Air Marshall should have to apologize, but I bet the airline will release a statement. The Air Marshall did his job, I agree with that. Yes the guy could have had a bomb, but he didn't. He had a mental illness, which yes medication should have been taken, but it wasn't for whatever reason. Its not like the guy was just bing an asshole, he had a mental condition. An apology should be issued from soneone at least.
    Paolino, Dec 8, 2005
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    DaCubanSkillz Active Member

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    I guess it would depend on the situation like i said. I can understand shooting and killing the guy on the plane. I can understand a police officer shooting someone who has a weapon and is ready to use it on the officer. There's a term thats used but I forgot it, but it basically says that if the officers life is in jeopardy (or any innocent people) then they have the right to shoot to kill (where that shoot to chest training comes into play). I think you mentioned something about that in one of ur posts.

    But what I can't see as being right if a person obviously does not have a weapon on them. In that type of situation, I think there should be other means of handling the person (Taser, pepper spray, etc).

    A statement, maybe. But an apology..I don't think so. Why should someone apologize for doing their job? The air marshal didn't know he had a mental illness. Its his or his wife's fault for not bringing the medication or enough of it!

    If the marshal did wrong then I can see an apology but he didn't do anything wrong. So I guess now they have to train air marshals to spot bipolar people before they shoot?
    DaCubanSkillz, Dec 8, 2005
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    e_andree E

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    But why apologize? Im sure a statement will be issued, other than the ones that have already been issued.

    There is no grey area here, and no time to reason with someone like that.
    e_andree, Dec 8, 2005
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    Barnacules 100101101011011

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    He did his job and he did it well. I don't blame the family for being pissed but the air marshall was in the right on this one. Had I been in that same situation I would have done the exact same thing. And as for trick shooting to incapacitate that just isn't practical on a crowded aircraft and if he did in fact have a bomb you don't want him to have time to activate it. I'm with the air marshal on this one...
    Barnacules, Dec 8, 2005
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    Paolino SolidTuned

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    He wasn't in a crowded aircraft. Apparantly the marshalls chased him off the plane and onto the boarding ramp...

    I dunno. I guess I just disagree. If I was the marshall, even though I did my job and was not in the wrong, I would DEFINITLY apologize to the man's wife, showing some sort of compassion for her loss. It would be the humane thing to do. (and he may have already done it, I don't know) I mean damn, does no one else see my point?
    Paolino, Dec 8, 2005
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    e_andree E

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    I assumed you wanted a publicized, televised statement. I see no point in that.

    I see no problem with the officers (because there were TWO officers that shot) confronting the wife. But for them to flat out apologize is admitting that they were in the wrong....and they werent. They did the job that they were trained to do, to the T. It doesnt matter where he was when he was shot. You dont shoot to wound.
    e_andree, Dec 8, 2005
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    Paolino SolidTuned

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    That's what I was really hoping for.

    If you gotta shoot to kill, you have to shoot to kill.
    Paolino, Dec 8, 2005
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    e_andree E

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    I hate Wold Blitzer on CNN......trying to stir up trouble over this.
    If the air marshals hadnt shot and killed this man and he had set off a bomb and killed everyone on that plane, Wolf would be raising a ruckus that enough wasnt done to prevent it.

    Its annoying!
    Plain and simple: He yelled that he had a bomb.....he didnt respond.....who the fuck cares if he was bipolar? It doesnt matter! They say he would never hurt a fly....well, hes bipolar, and he said he had a bomb, so that right there proves that he had those thoughts in his head.

    Passengers on both legs of the flight state that he was acting weird.

    And ONE shooting in over 4 years since 9-11 shows that discretion has been used in all previous cases.

    Why throw doubt into the Air Marshals actions?!?! This could have huge detrimental effects in the future if an officer second guesses himself.

    Tazers could make things worse.......aiming them are harder, and sometimes they dont totally stop a suspects actions! If there is a button in someone hand, it doesnt take much to push it and blow something up
    e_andree, Dec 8, 2005
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    falnfenix Well-Known Member

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    congrats to the Marshals for a job well done.
    falnfenix, Dec 8, 2005
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    plu Well-Known Member

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    The wife should of tackled his ass or kicked him in the nuts and it would of ended right there.
    plu, Dec 8, 2005
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    statik New Member

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    I see what you mean. I think I initially said something about an apology.
    We all have to do our job, but we all have to be people at some point.

    An apology is not an admission to wrongdoing, just an expression of regret.
    It could go something like this;

    "Mrs. It's unfortunate that this had to happen. Your husband DID threaten the safety of others, and he did reach for his bag which he said had a bomb in it.
    In this case we have to make the decision to stop him or endanger other people's safety. We couldn't risk it. This is our job, and I'm sorry that it happened this way."

    Something like that can help people deal with emotional pain.
    I think it's suitable.
    statik, Dec 8, 2005
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    teevee247 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that sort of statement... because he shows compassion but doesn't admit wrong doing...
    teevee247, Dec 8, 2005
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