confederate flags

if this turns into a big political argument.. > :lock:

that's the best animated picture yet! niiiiiiiiiiice...

i live in the northern part of virginia 2 or 3 months out of the year and the ONLY people i see with those things are rednecks in very very large trucks. i realize this may be a sweeping generalization/blanket statement, but it's really what i've noticed on the road. but really , who gives a fuck?

i actually think it mostly is a southern heritage thing, and even most rednecks probably don't fly the 'fed flag just to remind everyone about how they used to have hella slaves because that just doesn't make sense...

For me personally it's a reminder, a reminder of things that occured in the past, both good decisions and obviously a lot of bad ones. It simply pisses me off to see people take that flag as meaning 2 things:

1) People stuck in the past with this whole ' the south will rise again ' mentality

2) People who bitch and complain that its a racist symbol

I personally thing both those groups of people can go eat shit. I was born and raised in the south (Georgia, where until recently that was a part of our state flag, until group #2 decided to bitch and whine - grow up) and came to understand that the past is the past, you learn from your mistakes and move forward.

I am in no way, nor have I ever had racist tendencies. However, I admire the Confederate Flag as a symbol and a reminder that despite the fact that mistakes have been made, that lives have been lost and that some people will never change their mentality - life still moves on and we as a nation recover. To remove such symbols is to add to the pile of things which we have come to lose over the last 2.5 decades.

Yeeeee HA!!!

How come this political thread is still active, but others were shut down?

I think the confederate flag needs to be wiped out....confederate flag represents the confederacy, which represented and was built on slavery. The hardcore followers of the confederacy/southerners, are still mega racist, and some small towns are still living in the late 50s, early 60s.

Trust me, I'm keeping a close eye on this one... as long as it stays in this mood it's okay... Not sure about the causes of closings on the other threads as I didn't follow those, but at the first sign of trouble this one gets closed as well.

Cool, just dont reply to it. No need to tell us that you arent going to reply :superconf :superconf .

Slavery played a HUGE role in the labor structuring of the four distinct regions of the US at that time, which in the long run, led to the civil war. The Consititution and the arguments of how the government was to be run was a major factor as well. (which can also be traced back to slavery, because it was agreed upon to keep the number of slave states and free states equal. (which would keep the balance equal in the Senate). The North was industrializing, and the south depended on the cotton trade, which depended on SLAVE LABOR. When Lincoln became president, he was against slavery right off the bat.

So, due to all of the tension between the North and the South in regards to slavery, the southern states seceded from the Union.

To say that the Civil war had nothing to do with slavery is crazy, and absolutely wrong.

Heres a direct quote from some websites: "The Civil War was caused by a myriad of conflicting pressures, principles, and prejudices, fueled by sectional differences and pride, and set into motion by a most unlikely set of political events.At the root of all of the problems was the institution of slavery, which had been introduced into North America in early colonial times"

"The causes of the war were a complex series of events, including slavery, that began long before the first shot was fired. "

"The main quarrel between the North and South and perhaps the most emotional one, was over the issue of slavery."

The slavery issue really is a moot point. Both Union and Confederate's (read: North and South) had slaves and even after the war was over, many of the slaves opted to STAY with their former masters to continue to work land and serve. Hell even some of the Union Generals had their slaves brought with them out into the war to continue to serve them while in command of the Union Army. So to say it was a war started over slavery (entirely) is inaccurate.

I'm not discrediting that slavery didn't have anything to do with it, but it was more monetary and territorial reasons than it was for human rights. Much of the declarations of succession make comments towards the slavery matter and this is what in turn positions everyone to think that it was soley based on this reason. They are inaccurate. The human rights portion and the developement of the Emancipation Proclamation of it happened to be a nice side effect of the entire onslaught, however it was primarily put into place to rally support. The proclamation was announced in September of 1862 not quite 2yrs into the war. Slavery was a rallying point and quite honestly an afterthought once the war began if we take a look at the actions of those who seemed to declare such things.

What started the civil war was more based on money and power.

To quote:

"As a historian I would like to point out that the war was not over slavery, General Grant himself stated that "If I was ever convinced that this war was over slavery, I would give up my sword and lend it to the other side", Thus even Unionists did not think highly of African Americans The war was started because of the South Carolinians firing on fort Sumpter. The confederate army had EVERY right to do this, mainly because Fort Sumpter was in South Carolina the union was wrong to occupy what was then Southern territory. The main reason the Southern states broke out of the Union was because all the Southern money was going to the Yankees up North."

"The war started over comercial trade benifits.Confederate money was worth less on exchange in the north, & visa-versa. Large enterprises couldn't come upon a fair trade agreement as to the exchange rate for their currency. Most enterprises wouldn't even trade at all outside their own territory. But, as for the slavery issue, both the north,& the south continued to own slaves until the emancipation proclamation was declared by president Lincoln well after the start of the civil war. The real issue, like most things in this world, was money, & control."

For the record:

Confederate money and the *idea* of the Confederate States was in place *LONG* before the attempted secession en masse (wherein those said members of the idea of the confederacy declared themselves The Confederate States of America (Feb 9, 1861)) which ultimately led to the beginning of the Civil War (Feb 12, 1861). Confederate money was printed from 1835 (almost 20 yrs prior to the Civil War) to 1864 (obviously the last printed year as the war was over in 1865).

Years of declaration of seccession: (that i know of)

Texas - February 2, 1861
Georgia - January 29, 1861
Mississippi - (they were too dumb to date theirs, haha sorry i had to)
South Carolina - December 24, 1860

South Carolina however, had started their process in April of 1852.

and the most clear and accurate statement i've seen made recently, happens to be from an obvious foreigner. pretty sad.

"Why did the civil war start? Because the American constitution was unclear. It supported the rights of states and safeguarded these but did not detail if a state could secede. The South, culturally, economically and in some cases even ethnically different to the North, saw an implied right to secede. This is what historians refer to as 'secessionitis'.

Slavery is a tiny element. It is important because it was one of the many factors that differentiated the Union from the Confederacy. It is important because Lincoln barely clung on to power in the election of 1864 against the Democratic candidate, who was in favour of an armistice with the Confederates. It was because of this that Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation in order to rally support, not only among the Afro-Americans in the North, but in each Confederate territory that they subsequently conquered.

The Missouri compromise, as far as a history of slavery is concerned is quite important, but as far the US Civil War is concerned, it is not.

My advice to the majority of you, who I assume to be Americans, is to read a modern history or two of the US Civil War, not rely on what you were taught in a school and certainly not to rely on what you overhear."

Correct, much of it is in how you use it. A gun means a lot of things to a lot of people. For some its a symbol of Freedom, our right to bear arms and defend ourselves, a point of security. For others its a symbol of terror, a device that can, for a lack of better terms, enslave someone. It is unfortunate that many people use both guns and the confederate flag for purposes other than what they *should* be. (sadly both are used in many cases at the same time) What's important is that we educate ourselves against such things such as racism and violence so that we may understand these tokens as objects of our heritage and history, not as a symbol of what we are to be.

Add something constructive to the thread if youre going to post.