Stupid Street Bikers!!!

Justify it how you want. You're gonna stick in the neighborhood for 2000 miles, you've been driving a car since you were 8, you've driven every car from a pinto to an Enzo. All you're doing is making up excuses as to why you're better off than most beginners. Okay, you're the exception to the rule, that's great. And i'm the biggest undiscovered talent.

A 50hp carburated, 380 pound bike designed in the early 1980's, COMPARED to a 120hp fuel injected 380 pound bike designed last year....nuff said.

Talk to any MSF instructor if you don't believe me.

Take a 1000cc sportbike from 1980, and put it up against a 600cc sportbike of today, and it won't even be a race. The newer 600 will beat the older 1000

Not when one bike is more forgiving than another bike. So a Corvette is just as forgiving as a civic?

That's my fear. Oh, so far, still not a stock Gixxer on that website. Found a 05 on ebay that's stock, problem is, it's in Texas. I'm in TN.

Don't hate, that isn't becoming of you...lol. It's all in fun dude. If I crash, and never want to ride again, I promise if I survive, I will give you all the "I TOLD YOU SO" credit.

At 40mph, there is no forgiving factor difference in a Corvette or Civic. The difference is the Corvette can stop much faster.

Whatever, you're gonna do what you want. I can't say anything to change your mind. I keep forgetting you're the exception to the rule because [insert excuse/justification here]. You're not the type of person to listen to reason, or talk to someone with more experience. God forbid someone tells you what you DON'T wanna hear.

And besides, everything i've said doesn't have any value since i've only got a beginner's bike. I OBVIOUSLY don't know what I'M talking about. But [insert idiot here] says a 600cc sportbike is a great beginner's bike, so you should be good to go because [insert excuse/justification here].

::sigh:: it's like a brick wall with you guys. If you want, I can post up the pictures from the accident...maybe seeing someone with a jetta stuck on their head would change your mind? Or perhaps the third degree burns? Or maybe the bones sticking out of his body? Or maybe you'd just like the face of his worn down, stressed out mother? Or perhaps his girlfriend who sleeps alone every night? Well, here you go...a few pictures of what will eventually happen when you go down in a bad tank slapper....
*GRAPHIC-WARNING*
http://www.motorcycle-accidents.com/bike_photo/4-21-02_b.jpg


ttp://www.strangedangers.com/images/content/2898.jpg

http://www.thecobramovement.com/images/music/motorcycle_accident.jpg

Oh, but that's right...all of you are way too safe for this to happen to you, right?

But if you guys are SURE you aren't going to fall, go on over to www.gsxr.com and check out their forum. Be especially sure to check out the forum titled "tribute to the fallen". It's about all the riders who have lost people they love.

Lol...You gotta love this guy. Just because I don't do what you suggest, I'm automatically not listening to what you have to say. That's like me saying you don't respect my decision because I don't do what you say to do. I'm just trying to find ways to prove me wrong, and that the 600cc class can not be used as a beginner bike, and so far that has not happened.

That's the thing, you're not doing that. I've presented multiple reasons why and you again give the same excuses everyone gives. You are no different than anyone else, you're a "know it all/it won't happen to me/i'm responsible."

Seriously, if you're not gonna listen to me, talk to someone who has YEARS of experience.

Might wanna read that one again.

Great, so he said a modern sportbike is GREAT for a beginner? Mind telling me who this guy was?

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mckaw/00ex500.html

i never said to buy a 1980 Ninja 500, I don't even know if they made them back then. I said, the difference between a 1000cc bike from 1980, vs. a 600 of today is no comparison. The 600cc would beat the 1000cc hands down.

The bikes have gotten EXTREMELY better, they are not beginner's bikes, plain and simple. The sportbikes today are race bikes de-tuned to be able to run on the streets. There's a specific class the pros run where they take off the showroom bikes, prep them for racing, i.e. race fairings, removed mirrors, kickstand etc. And they race them competitively. It's not a n00b class, these are full blown factory sponsored pros.

Bad example, but whatever, no matter what I say, people like you who have your heart set on something, aren't gonna listen to reason. No example will be good enough for you. You always have some excuse or justification.

Yep, he hasn't acted like he's not gonna "put down" his bike. But he also acted like he's SOOOO mature, and knows everything, and has SOOOO much control that he'll never be put in a bad situation or never know how NOT to react properly.

The thing you must understand, yes you're gonna be put in a bad situation no matter what bike you're on. If you're skills are there, then you'll react just fine, but if you're still in the learning stage, it's better to be driving something that isn't gonna slap you in the face the minute you react the wrong way.

I've rode my bike twice, but wait, I don't have any value to what I say since i'm such a n00b. God forbid i've actually talked to many people, people who actually have years of experience.

And since we're on the subject what makes you SOOO much better than me? And how can you say buying a Ninja 250 or 500 is a bad choice even though they don't loose their resale value and are in high demand. If it's better to be safe than sorry, how can you tell someone to not buy a 13 second bike, and buy a 10 second bike instead?

Also, why do you want to buy a sportbike when they're uncomfortable? Is it the image? Do you wanna look "cool?" Pretend you're Nicky Hayden or Valentino Rossi? Trying to be something you're not perhaps?

Yeah, that's fine until you get into a situation where you're not controlling the variables....like I said, a car pulls out in front, improperly swerve, grab too much brake....

It's not that hard for anyone to be put in a situation they're not ready for....just because of a stupid driver.

Also, a Katana isn't even in the same class as a GSXR600. I don't know why you're brining up a katana at all.

Youre link proves nothing. OMG, it's a shootout between sportbikes, they don't mention how good it is for a beginner. And the guy was simply asking if there's much difference between a 1997 and 1999 or 2000 sportbike. Which basically showed there wasn't much difference. So what does that prove? Nothing. Just means there's MORE of a difference between a true beginner bike, and a sportbike.

Just like there's thousands of people who started off with 600cc bikes and didn't live to see another day, or quit after one bad crash. The fact is, if you have a 600cc bike that isn't even capable of getting an average rider the point where he can ever TRULY outgrow the bike, i.e. take it up to the limit and then some (in the corners), then it's not a good beginner bike.

You know what I find funny? There's people on 250's that can kill a 600 in the twisties. If a rider is ready for a 600, they shouldn't be getting their ass handed to them by a 250...

Makes a big difference if you have to swerve or brake. The handling and braking characteristics aren't the same for a 500 beginner vs. a 600 sportbike.

Well excuse me, i'm just telling him what everyone else will tell him. Maybe i'll leave any threads of opinion up to you. Maybe you can send me a PM when i'm out of line. Or perhaps would you like for me to ask your permission before I speak on anything?

And personal experiences doesn't mean anything. The only thing that's happening, is he's saying how good he'll be because he's "mature" and "focused" or whatever he wants to call it. The only difference with a sportbike and a beginner's bike is sensitivity and response. I don't care how mature, or how old a person is, none of that matters. Not the kinds of cars a person has driven, nothing. It's about developing your skills on a bike that will make it simple, and allow a person to ACTUALLY develop the skills. Anything powerful, or overlyresponsive wont' allow those skills TO develop. It's just like anything else, keep things simple and work your way up.

As for you 20+ friends, how much riding experience do they actually have? Are we talking 20 years? Or is just 1 or 2? I personally like to listen to the ones that's got 20 years.

As for my bike, if you read what I said in one of my earlier posts, it's a 2002 Suzuki GS500

Funny, I sure think you implied a Ninja 250 is a bad choice. Fact is, 600's are NOT beginner bikes, especially not a sportbike. Each year, they're getting faster and faster. So how are they easier to learn off of?=

So 100mph and 150mph top speed isn't a big difference? And almost twice the horsepower isn't a big difference? Wow, so an STi isn't much different than a Corolla XRS?

well, this is what I PM'ed as my final thoughts....

Lol...that's messed up. That thread started off totally on a different subject. But I wanted to tell you lastly that, I understand and have heard your opinion and others opinions. However, what I have been trying to explain to you is that this whole post has been an accumilation of "opinions". It is not a Factual statement to say that 600's can not be used as a beginners bike. For the simple matter that some people have used 600's as their beginner bike. The question of "can a 600 be used as a beginner bike?" is so debateable, you just have to pick which side of the argument you want to be on. So, don't be upset when E Andree and I are on the "Darkside" persay...lol. This is not a clear black and white statement like "Hayabusa's are not beginner bikes". Even someone that is not planning on owning a bike know the answer to that question. But that last statement you made about "Why wanting a sportbike, they are uncomfortable anyway, do I just want to look cool"". Man, I don't even really know how to respond to that statement. Exept to tell you that I have never once gave two rats ass about someone else thinking if I was cool or not. I'm my own person. Nicky and Valentino are insperational, and motivation to be a good rider(like Bruce Lee was for me being a Martial Artist), NOT that I want to be them. I persoanlly like the Gixxer. Simple matter is, some people like cruisers, some like sportbikes, some like Porshe over Ferrari. There are other bikes out there like the R1, R6, etc..that may look sexy and sleek. But they just don't "DO" it for me like when I look at a Gixxer. Just something about that bike, makes me oblivious to other motorcycles around it. I don't claim to be any more invincible that you are. But what I do know is that I stick to the plan, and I KNOW MYSELF. I won't come out of my safety net(my neighborhood and near by street) till I'm ready. Which by the way is a very low volume traffic area. And if it was to high of a traffic area, I can always trailer my bike out to the country hillside, and practice out there.

I appreciate your concern man, but I think I have it pretty much under control. Would you like to talk to my mom sometime?...lol. She would tell you that I'm the type of person that always has to be in control of himself. She once bought me a polo with Bugs Bunny on it sitting in a recliner with a remote control, and the caption underneath read "In Contorl". Fear of loosing self-control is one of the reasons I don't drink.

Except you, Kwong, and Rhythm, lol!

WOW this is not what I expected when I posted that... I was just pissed and on a rant but 4 pages and a close then a re-open... damn... have to love a good livley debate...

Lol...well, I'll be sitting on my Gixxer 600 come late July/early Aug. While Kwong is on his GS500 pretending it's a real Gixxer...lol. All fun and games.

Well, like I said, there's a big difference between a bike capable of 100mph, vs. one that can do 150mph. I understand it's a matter of opinion, but I don't understand why a person would decide to start off with a new bike that might not be the best starter bike, vs. buying a used, full blown starter bike that costs a fraction of the price of a new GSXR and still holds it's value for the period of learning to ride. You're not gonna loose ANYTHING by being safe and riding a ninja 250 or 500 for a month, so why buy a new GSXR? Only one thing comes to mind...image.

You can know your limits, and know that you'll never put yourself in a bad situation, blah blah blah, but the fact is, unless you're in a completely controlled environment without any unknown variables (people/cars), then you can never know for sure what other drivers are gonna do. And even if you have enough control to not get crazy, it doesn't mean you're not gonna over-control the bike at some point even when just going 20mph in the neighborhood.

As taken from the second post on http://www.gsxr.com/showthread.php?t=3412

The throttle on MY bike has to be turned about a full 1/2 turn for full throttle. Why do you want a bike that's twice as powerful and twice as sensitive? A sportbike can go into a wheelie VERY easily, why start out with something like that? All the self-control in the world isn't gonna make you a safe, or even a capable rider. Everyone makes mistakes while learning. The more forgiving a bike is, the easier it will be to learn off of.

But whatever, it's your decision, and it's your life. Just don't die or end up in a wheel chair the rest of your life. And one word of advice, keep up with regular maintenance on whatever bike you get. Poorly maintained bikes can be a death trap.

Last message I sent to e_andree

That bold sentence right there, is EXACTLY what I have been trying to tell you all this time. Completely controlled environment. And "OVER-Contorl" of the bike is just a mere mistake of learning. Like I said, I know at some point I will drop it. But that dosen't mean I'm never going to learn the bike. Just because you ride a scooter for 2yrs. does not make you an expert on riding a sportbike. You can start out on a smaller CC bike, and yes it probably would make you a better rider QUICKER(That's the key word, Quicker) than someone starting on a sportbike. But truth to the matter is, 'You are still going to have to get used to riding a sportbike, because it's more powerful and larger'. Just because you start out on a 250 or 500 "Does Not Gaurantee That You Won't Ever Over-Control The 600".

The learning curve is of a greater degree on a 600 than the smaller CC, but that dosen't mean I will NEVER learn the limitations of the 600. It's just going to take me longer. And I like a challenge!

"IMAGE"....LOL. Dude, I love the bike, not what people think about me on it. Why are you on VVT-I.net? This is a performance board you know. If Toyota was giving out free Twin Turbo 700 hp Supras to every VVT-I.Net member, in exchange for their Rolla, exactly how many do you think would give up their Rollas for the high performance of the Supra? I don't know to many that wouldn't. But their first thought wouldn't be, "OH, I'm going to look so COOL". No, their thoughts would be about the car, and the performance behind it. But just because they have a manual Rolla (even if it's a trubo rolla) and have been driving it for years, does not make them an expert at driving and can right off the bat handle the power of 700hp. They are going to have to LEARN the clutch, gearing, shift points, etc... Might not take them as long, because they have driven a stick before, but they are still going to have to learn the car.

Well for one, if Toyota was giving away a 700hp Supra, i'd take it, then sell it for $50,000 and buy my corolla back. I don't care for Supras.

The fact is, your logic is no logic at all. And you still haven't given a VALID excuse as to why you want a sportbike vs. a beginner bike. A Ninja 250 can be acquired for $2000, outgrown in a month, and re-sold for $2000. You won't lose any money, but you'll gain a ton of skill fast. A sporbike like your precious GSXR600, you'll pay $9000, loose $1500 immediately, it won't be a very good bike to learn off of, and it'll take several years to acquire the riding skills learned in a month's time off of a Ninja 250.

I ask again, why are you gonna buy a GSXR600? You obviously aren't concerned with being safe or gaining the proper skill to handle such a high performance bike. You've already said the learning curve is gonna be steep. So why buy it?

Anyone learning to ride will make mistakes, they will over-control the bike, and they will drop the bike. The difference in choice of bikes is how forgiving the bike is. A ninja 250 or 500 is gonna be more forgiving than a GSXR600 will EVER be PERIOD. Sportbikes will throw a n00b if given the chance. A beginner bike will give more room for error so there's A LOT less chance of getting thrown off the bike.

So far all you've said is you're not concerned with being safe or developing riding skill. Preach about leathers all you want, but it's gonna make you a better rider.

A Dodge Viper will never be a good car to learn to drive with, a GSXR600 will never be a good bike to learn off of.

Then you must be the only one on this board that would do that. And frankly it sounds a bit absurd.

Each individual is different when it comes to their ability to learn. I am a visual person, who learns by getting their hands dirty. And I learn fast. If I was to dump the bike, I can say with pretty high asurance that I will not make the same mistake more than twice. If you read the previous post, I said that I would out grow a 250 in a month or two. Why would you want a Viper over a Neon? Why would you want a Supra over a Corolla? Why would you like a turbo in your Corolla? Why do you wear jeans instead of shorts? Why do you go ball instead of growing a fro? Why would you want a GSXR600 over a Ninja 250/500? These are all the same questions, with close to the same answers. Personal Preferance! To which I have already explained to you. $1,500 is not a lot of money. I make $1,198 every pay check.

How so, just because I buy a bike with about 50 more hp. over yours. That makes me automatically disconcerened with being safe. If I go turbo the TC(which is in our plans), or purchase a CAI(which we just did), or purchase bigger brakes, exhaust, etc...and pump out 300hp in the TC, all of a sudden I'm no longer concered about whether I live or die....Give me a Break! I'll say it again for you, I like a challenge.

I don't think I will be going that fast to hit the brakes hard enough to be throw to death, or injury beyond repair. Hence the phrase..."Take it easy, till you get comfortable."

You are not stating facts here. Funny how you said it will "NEVER" be a good bike to learn off of, and there are people that have. It's funny how you try your "Mightest" to present your statements as FACTS! Everyone, that's interested in this debate I think, clearly see that they are just mere opinions. The only facts that I have stated, are that I know myself, my environment, and that I will buy a GSXR600....LOL.

It's not, I prefer engine response and handling, Supras just wont' do it for me. Plus, making $50k off a car seems pretty nice.

you still have no answered my question. Here, let me rephrase it, what opportunity cost are you losing if you were to have a Ninja 250 for a month? You won't lose any money when you re-sell it, and the bike is in such high demand it can be sold within 1 or 2 days.

I don't care about how fast you learn or how much money you make. As a matter of fact, the amount of moeny you make only hurts your argument. So you make $1198 each pay check and $1500 is nothing to you? So why not buy a Ninja 250 for a month then switch over to the GSXR. If it's not an image thing, then what is it?

If you don't care about being a safe, skilled rider, then what is it? Please, i'd like to know.

You already said the bike has a steep learning cuve, you're not concerned with being safe becasue you're not trying to take the safe route. it's plain and simple, you say i'm dumb becasue I accuse someone else of wanting a bike for the image. You yourself want a GSXR600 for the image. You're passing up a no-lose situation for an IMAGE.

So I guess you'll just stay in the parking lot the entire time? You can't control every variable, and you can't learn everything going 25mph. I'm sorry, but your logic sucks. You will never know how you'll react until you get on the road. All the self control won't do a damn thing when you make a mistake.

Yep, you will obviously buy your GSXR600, but it'll take you A LOT longer to be a safe rider, and you're obviously not concerned with safety because if you were, you'd take the no-lose safe route and get a smaller bike...even if it's a short time.

I really like this thread and the normal non violent discussion that is going on people *thumbz up* and well to me bikers are stupid just as car drivers out there.... bikes do NEED more space that's for sure but car drivers just wannab bizniatches and hug all the road.... bikers on the other hand they need to be more responsible that's for sure. If we all play our part I'm sure that there could be way less bike/car accidents per year but people really have to commit man because the fact that there's stupid 16 yr old kids out there thinking that their damn cars can handle like a rally car that shit kills but for their immature mind that's only plug and play... <<< figures... and well most bikers think they're bad ass and what not so they do stupid stuff on public roads that put in jepardy the lives of many out there..... I dk car drivers and bike drivers have to chill down in public streets and learn how to share safety out there that's my point of view........ P.S keep up the good discussion peeps

Oh, let me guess, you can't tune a Supra for engine response.

Hmm...let see, boredum, hassle of resale for starters. And let me rephrase it for you too. "My friend + ownes low powered bike = No Need To Waste Time With 250/500". I already told you I can go to his house and learn on his bike any time I want.

See previous statement.

No one said they didn't care about being safe.

Just because you buy a 250/500 does not gaurantee your saftey. 250/500 is not going to stop a car smashing into you at 40+. And if you mention "Oh, it's more forgiving, you will have a better chance of reacting". Man, just about every motorcycle accident that involves other objects, and not just the rider dropping the bike, all have involved very, very, little to none room for reaction. Did you see the video of the guy who ran into a deer on his bike. Killed the deer and damaged his bike a little. The deer ran out right as the biker got up on him. Came out from a tall blade of grass. How often to do you see a car pull out a good distance ahead of time. Hell, you can be driving a car, and people will still pull out in front of you. Let me say it again for you, "I LIKE THE BIKE, and Don't Give A Crap About What Someone Else Thinks Of Me On It". Maybe you care what other people think, but I'm not one of those people.

Country side, parking lot, neighboorhood. How fast do you think I will be going in the Motorcycle safety class? I can control every variable until I'm comfortable enough to go into an uncontrolled environment. And my learning environment will allow me to go faster than 25mph bro. Oh, let me guess, get a 250/500 and you will NEVER make a mistake. Another one of your proven FACTS right? Dude....please spare me.

And again, it's garuanteed that it's a no-lose safe route. Maybe "SAFER", but it's by no means a sure thing. And what difference does it make if it takes me 2 months, or 2 years(exaggeration of course) to be a "safe rider". It sounds to me that your deffinition of a safe rider, is anyone who DOSEN'T own a sportbike. You ask me why I like the Gixxer and sportbikes for that matter. But it just occured to me, that you either 1) Don't like sportbikes period. or 2) Just upset that your deal was declined when you tried to get a sportbike before you got that GS500. Very funny that you tried to get a sportbike first, and your deal was denied, now you are the "Anti-Sportbike Advocate". For some reason, I feel you would be on the other side of the fence if your deal would have went through. Oh, but let me guess, you would have turned around and sold it for a cheaper bike to learn on....WHATEVER!