Stupid Street Bikers!!!

UMM....sir, I think you have me mistaken. I'm not invincible, never said leather would eliminate every possible danger. I have enough common sense to know that leather is not going to save my life if a car rolls over my body at 40+ mph. And I have enough common sense to know that riding with leather is 10 times better than riding without it. I know what leather is designed for(preventing road rash). No I haven't had a bike before, and Yes i am a new rider. What more is there to teach me when:

1) I will be taking the motorcycle training course(good knowledge, omits the driving portion of the license test, lower your insurance)

2) I am fully aware of what I'm capable of, and not going to be stupid and think I can drive at 90+ from just having it.

3) I will be purchasing motorcycle body protectors such as (frame sliders, bar ends, and there's even a large bar that can cover the entire side of the bike). In the event that I do dump it. I am more worried about dumping it at 60+ than pulling up at a stop sign and dumping it. And for being a new rider, I'm going to pace myself, and not overdue it. As I become a better rider, will I go faster.

So, as you can see, I've done my homework. I'm 25yrs old, and not some dinky teenager who dosen't know what he is getting himself into. I feel insulted that you would think my common sense is that lacking. About buying a new bike as your first bike, to each his own. I have read reviews of people purchasing this bike in particular as their first bike. It has been done before. Another thing is that this is the only brand/bike that I want(no "if", "ands" or "buts" about it) and how many gixxer owners do you know that have older models that have not done a bit of work on them to make them faster. So, it's either buy a brand new gixxer that is stock, or buy a used gixxer that someone has put money into to make it go hella fast. You take your pick!

Well if you're gonna go buy a GSXR anything for your first bike, then you obviously haven't done enough homework. Good luck trying to learn off of a race bike, you can become a statistic.

Then I guess it's just my time to go. I can become a statistic by just being black...LOL j/k.

As the manager of a warehouse full of motorcycles...I would highly reccommend that if you have you heart set on buying a brand new bike...you pick up either a YZF-600R (My bike, very comfortable, easy to learn on) or a Suzuki Katana.

The Katana you can pick up typically for less than $4750...it's not a powerful bike, but is a great beginner bike.

If you really something cheap and easy to start off with...the Kawasaki EX (Ninja) 500.

Ease yourself onto bikes. I've been on dirt bikes before...had my street bike for a little over a year...and I'll tell you, there are a whole lot more things you learn out on the road dealing with the situations than you will out of doing homework.

Just keep your wits about you, focus on what others are doing.

When I first got my street bike...I actually rode about the first 20 miles inside my warehouse (not practical for most people.) I did another 140 in the 1 square block around my warehouse...took it to my folks house and finished the 2nd break-in point (600 miles) in their neighborhood. Before I even took the bike onto main streets I was comfortable enough on the bike to be able to crank into corners or quickly avoid situations that were about to go bad.

Also remember to SEE.

-Andy
P.S. Shiny side up!

Yeah, I understand about the new bike thing. I've been cautioned before about it being my first bike and all. However, if I drop it and I get paint scuffed, or broken fiber glass, I'm not to worried about it. Because my mom's ex-boyfriend, whom I'm still friends with is a mechanic for Nissan. He specializes in body work. So he knows the whole 9 yards in fiberglass and painting. He even has his own little paint setup in the garage at his home. Equipped with heating to dry paint, air compressor, lighting setup...etc. Oh, not to mention, he owns a Kawasaki, to which he just recently custom painted like orange with some candy green pin stripes and drove to Fl. on it for Bike week. And I can go there any time I want to paint parts or fix them, whether it's my car, or my new bike. So, I sorta have pretty much all things covered at this point in time.

What I was saying about a used gixxer is that, finding a used gixxer that is stock is like finding a needle in a hay stack. The older gixxer are notable for being some of the fastest street bikes, next to the Busa. So, a used gixxer is going to be somewhat modified and I don't want a modified bike. So, options are to get a new one, or spend countless hours on the internet searching for a stock used gixxer. And I don't feel like searching.

Me no like bikes, I know too many people that have died on them
I dont think Ive EVER seen someone with a bike, not drive like an ass...

Here is the problem. I'm a fast learner. Let's say I was to buy another alternative(which I'm not going to do), but let's just say I did. Next thing you know, I'm going to want that gixxer that I originally wanted, and realized that I'm stuck making payments on a bike I have out grown persay. I know that the gixxer is not TOO! powerful that it can no way shape or formed be used as a beginner bike like a Busa is. However, a gixxer is a bike to be respected on the street as well as having the aftermarket support. So, the gixxer will become unusable, before I could outgrow it. Not to mention, the I like the styling of the bike over those others.

Your approach to learning is pretty much going to be my approach as well. I'm going to start in a block radius. The more comfortable I become, the further away from home I will go. I'm refraiming from traffic areas until I'm confident in my ability to control the bike.

And an R6 or CBR600F4i or CBR600RR is also a good beginner's bike? RIIIIGHT.

Why don't you ask an MSF instructor how good a GSXR600 or 750 is for a beginner. He'll tell you it's not a beginner's bike....not even CLOSE.

Here, lets just get all the excuses out of the way...

Those were all taken from this thread: http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?t=262785

Read through it, and read every motorcycle forum out there. Any real rider will tell you NOT to get an "r" bike.

I wouldn't go as far as saying a 750 is a beginners bike. But I think a 600 is about as close to the edge of NOT being a beginners bike, and it suits my taste just fine. I see that you provided excuses as to why to get one, what about excuses as to why NOT to get one? Just curious to see what those are.

About three of those reasons mentioned apply to me. And that is, I WILL take it easy until I'm comfortable, I don't like none of the other mentioned bikes, and others HAVE started on 600's.

http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?t=262785

Click that link and read ALL the way throught it. The excuses I listed in the above post was basically the main ones every one says. The link will show you exactly why everyone of those excuses are wrong.

Ok, if it makes you feel better, this is what I will do. My mom's ex-boyfriend also has another bike which is pretty beat up. It's not a sport bike, it's a small class cruiser I think. Seeing as how it's going to be at least two months before I get my bike, I'll just ask him to take me riding and show me the ropes before I get my gixxer. Yes I know, 2 months isn't a very long time, but at least it's better than just hoping on the gixxer first hand.

Well, how about this. Just the GSXR-600 since you're stuck on it.....(JOKING)

I was in the same boat as you no less than 2 weeks ago. I almost bought a 1997 Yamaha YZF600R. Thankfully, the purchase fell through and I ended up buying a 2002 Suzuki GS500. I'm very happy with the bike, it's an easy bike to ride with plenty of power, and it's very forgiving. I have a lot of growing room with that bike, and in a year, I should have enough skill to handle a sportbike. Sure, my first bike isn't glamorous, and it's not gonna win races, but it's gonna serve it's purpose, and you know what? I'll lose little to no money when i re-sell it in a year or two.

I know you're gonna buy what you wanna buy, no one will stop you, but BELIEVE me, I was saying the exact same things you were saying. Only difference is I talked to plenty of people, and thought about my plan, and decided it wasn't right for a beginner.

Like I said, you're gonna buy what you're gonna buy. But at least do some research and talk to EXPERIENCED riders that have years of riding. Talk to an MSF instructors, talk to any motorcycle organization and see what they say. Believe me, you do not want any sportbike for your first bike.

I am going to go ahead and agree with kwong2001 there. Think about this situation, sure it's a little different, but it gets the idea across.
You've never drive a manual transmission car before, always just drove around in a 3-cyl geo or something shitty like that. 0-60 maybe. on a good day, downhill, with the wind at your back.
Now say you want to learn manual and have some "extra" spending money. You're not going to go sit down in a Shelby GT350 and just take off. First of all, you'll probably kill the car he process (not my point) but it's way too powerful to learn in, and you probably wont even get comfortable driving it or be able to take what you learnt from driving that car to say another car.
Start with something that makes sense. Sure a 600, or hell even a 1000 looks and sounds great, probably makes you feel all warm inside, but that would just be stupid for a starter bike. start with something that is easy to ride, something that you can be very comfortable on. Then start slow. take it around the neighborhood where it isnt busy. Spend a couple hours driving around, then slowly move up.
In a year, maybe less, you'll probably grow out of it. But then you will be so damn comfortable driving it, that a step up from that isn't going to be a big deal.

Ok, now that's a little overboard Mill. I don't think the same applies here. The 600 is not like the mightest of bikes. Just for the record, I taught my girlfriend how to drive a manual in 3 days. On the 4th day, we went out and got a 5 spd. Scion TC. Before that, she was driving an automatic Eagle Summit. Yes she complained for a week, and we argued and she cursed me for those days she stalled and felt embarrased doing it. But, if you asked her now, she would tell you she wouldn't trade her 5 spd for anything in the world.

Ok, I just read that whole post. I am not trying to be combative, and justify my decision. But the article assumes a lot ahead of time. It presumes that you are going to be stupid, and that every rider's learning curve is the same. I can see your point of view, and take it into consideration. However, only you and only you, know what you can handle and know what you are capable of. Some people have this ability to get in over their heads. I have yet to do that in any decision I have ever made. In one of the post, this guy makes a very good observation:

"Once again, the safety arguments focus on the assumed inability to exert self-control. However, this argument always falls short for the person that does have self-control. And those who don't have it shouldn't be riding any bike. No bike choice will prevent self-destruction. This is the important lesson that is always lost when the argument is framed in this specious way.

It is easier to start on a smaller bike, and I'll happily continue to recommend them. But it doesn't constitute the difference between safe and unsafe. That happens in the brain, not under the butt."

and this other guy posted after that...

Very well said jim. You could hurt yourself just as much if you crash into a car with an r6 or a 250 going the same speed. Think twice before you crack the throttle open in a busy area or even an intersection.





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With all due respect to everyone here...the 600 is quickly becoming the starter bike.

Companies like Honda, Suzuki and even Yamaha are starting to phase out even their sub 800cc cruiser bikes. Hell a beginner cruiser bike is almost a 1000 now.

A 600 streetbike is easy to ride, easy to learn on...only on the ZX-6R's and the R6's and the CBR600RR are you going to get a power wheelie, and that's only if you really try.
A lot of bikers are actually going to tell you that a 600 is a GREAT place to start.

And to be honest, that's all the power I'll ever need...600 is plenty...and yet you retain much more comfort over a more raced-out 1000.

Millhouse's example isn't a good one, but trust me, he's right.

Look at it this way, your son or brother just got his learner's permit. He jumps in a formula 1 car for his first driving lesson. Now, do you honestly think that's the best car to learn off of? Sure he'll get the car moving, and he'll probably do decent, until you hits too much throttle or too much brake...

It's the same with motorcycles, a 600cc modern sportbike (or even one from 10 years ago), is NOT something for a beginner. It's a street tuned race bike, not much different than what the guy's one TV are using. They accelerate fast, corner hard, and stop on a dime. Everything is ten times more sensitive and completely unforgiving. Make a mistake on one, and you're going down. It's simple as that.

You'll buy the bike, and find you can ride it just fine, you can turn, stop, and work the throttle while under control. The difference is in a situation where the conditions aren't ideal. Hit a bump in the road, and you could very well go from 40mph, to 70mph in a split a second. A car turns in front of you, you panic, give too much brake, and your ass is getting thrown off the bike. Turn into a turn to fast or hard, and you can find yourself sliding on the ground.

Sportbikes are NOT forgiving bikes. 120-130hp with 100ft/lbs torque in a little 350 pound package is not gonna be forgiving. It's making the same power as an 8th or 9th gen corolla, but with hardly any weight. THINK ABOUT IT.

My bike is 51hp, and has enough torque to easily pull 4th gear from 30mph without lagging or sputtering or whatever. It's an easy bike to learn off of.

And I ask you, if you can get a Ninja 250 for $2000, ride it for a year, then sell it for $2000, why are you gonna spend $8000 on a bike you could only sell for maybe $7000 the minute it receives a title? God forbid it gets dropped or even worse, wrecked...

Seriously, your first bike is not gonna be your last bike.

If that deal would have went through, you would have been sitting on a YZF600R. It comes down to the driver, and their own learning curve and abilities. Everyone is not the same. This guy said it all when he said:

"Unfortunately some people make very bad decisions."

And that is what it pretty much boils down too when it comes to the question, "Is a 600 a beginners bike?" You see, it's not as obvious as a question like "Is the Hayabusa a beginners bike?" Everyone knows the answer to that. But a 600 question boils down to an individuals own will, and capability to exuberate self-control.

You know what, just get the bike and do what you want. Listen to the people that will tell you what you want to hear, forget about the things people tell you that contradict what you want.

Just get the bike. I'm not trying to take away your magical sportbike and image you're buying into. I'd love to have one myself, but I know i'm not ready. I bought a bike to prepare myself.

It's not about your maturity level, how old you are, your experience in dirtbikes, or bicycles or whatever. It's purely about doing it the right way the first time.

There are plenty of people who have started on a sportbike and been successful. There's plenty of those who have crashed a sportbike several times before being successful. There are several people who have started on a sportbike, and stopped on a sportbike because they ended up in the grave. And there are people who have started on sportbikes and sold their sportbikes for something easier to learn off of. There's also people who started off on an easy bike, and eventually moved up to a sportbike.

Explaining to a person why they shouldn't get a sportbike is like talking deaf person. It won't matter what you say, they're not gonna hear you.

How about this, if you can get a dealership to let you test ride a GSXR600 ever after telling them you've never rode a motorcycle before, then I will fully support your decision.

How many dealearships will let you test drive anything(even car dealerships) if you tell them you have never driven before. I don't see what that proves.

No need to get all upset about it. I've read and took into account everyones opinion. But don't get mad at me, if it doesn't deter me from buying my 600. However, what your opinion did do was encourage my idea to be careful even more and to take stick to my learning steps. And to follow the guidelines, like MSF, gear, etc..

Well you'd have a better chance to hop on a Ninja 250 versus a GSXR600.

Seriously, why are you even replying to anyone? You obviously have your mind set on what you wanna get, nothing anyone says will change your mind. The only people you will listen to, are the ones that tell you what you wanna hear. Just go buy the bike, just don't become another beginner who learns the hard way. Justify everything because you're a responsible adult who won't get into trouble, or because as long as you keep the revs down you should be fine. Make up whatever excuse you want to justify the purchase and just get it over with.

Let me tell you something...I was looking at a R6 and asked some experienced riders if the MSF would prepare me for an R6. You know what they said, they said flat out, the MSF will only teach the basics, it won't make you a great rider right off the bat. That comes with experience, not 16 hours and $100.

Leathers won't protect you from dying or breaking bones. Crash at 60mph, and you might not wake up.

But why the hell am I still talking to you? Nothing I say will convince you to look into a different bike.

As much as I don't agree with how that was said...the meaning behind it was perfect.
Make your own decisions in life, but always remember...there are positives and negatives to every choice you make.
You are responsible for the line you ride through life.
So make your choices.
And as a fellow rider...welcome to the world of owning a motorcycle.

Still not a good example. That's like saying I'm starting on a Hayabusa. There is nothing faster than an F1 car. Is there anything faster than a 600, yes. That's like saying if my son wanted to have a nice car with power, but still was learning to drive, would it be ok to give him a Camero SS, or a F1 car. Both are still fast machines, but which is more suitable and probably more likely the choice for him.

I guess you must have missed the part where I said "The more cofortable I get ridding, the further from home I will travel". So, therefore, when the "situation" changes to my not so "ideal" mindset, my skill level would have also been increased by that time. I'm starting out in my neighborhood, and I think I know how the road surface is structured, since I've been living there for quite some time now. It has hills, turns, long straights, and the distance is good enough.

The gixxer600 is 100 hp. Not 120-130hp. And if it was that much, I wouldn't be getting the bike to begin with.

Why buy anything new for that matter? Everything depreciates off the lot, car, motorcycle, atv, motor home, etc.. Whether I start out on a 250 or not, when I go buy my bike, it's still going to depreciate when I take it off the lot. All bikes wreck, or get dropped, you can't avoid that factor either, be it used or not. The problem is, it's not like a car. You drop a bike, you can replace body pieces in you garage, and you insurance company will never know. So, who is to say that the bike has only been dropped once. It could have been dropped 8+ times, but you will never know, because the guy fixed it himself.

ok, seriously guys...all those things y'all said are great. About the 600, about the safety course, about the leathers...all of it. But keep in mind that an accident can and will still happen NO MATTER WHAT. Rodd was riding at 40 mph after taking the safety course, after wearing a helmet and jeans and good sturdy shoes, after getting a started bike and then buying a new bike after he learned.

What it comes down to is this....
YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE OTHER DRIVERS ON THE ROAD.

An accident will still occur even if you are the safest driver in the world, because there will always be someone out there not paying attention.

You may be able to sit there and say now "if it's my time to go, it's my time to go." Heck, Rodd said that to me before his accident...but now that he sees what his family and closest friends are going through, he's said he'll never ride a bike again.

Because I like to debat. And you keep saying things that don't make sense, like "Crash at 60mps and you might not wake up". Dude, you can crash at 60 on a scooter and not wake up. MPH has nothing to do with the machine you are on.

OMG! Thank you CPat. The whole debate up till this point has been about "well, you will for sure crash if you get a 600". Every reason NOT to get one has been strickly based on the fact that it's a 600. If I get a 600 and driving right along at 40mph, it don't matter what bike I'm on, if someone comes barging out of an intersection, and smashes me.

But it is truely a gift that he survived. You know, I wasn't trying to be a bad ass when I said "if it's my time, then it's my time." But it wasn't his fault. If I survived such an ordeal, I couldn't say that it would prevent me from riding anymore. Somethings like the guy that was trying to break the speed record on a motorcycle and crashed and got his leg caught in the bike with it dragging him on the salt flat at nearly 300mph, got back on to the bike after healing in the hospital to tried it again. Crashed a second time, but this time the bike decentegrated and there was no repairing it after that. He survived the second crash too. But the oddasity to get back on after crashing the first time, well I'm not that much of a gambler.

Well whatever, seriously, buy the bike since that's what you're gonna do anyways.

If you wanna take any of my advice, take this:

Before buying the bike, take your MSF class and get your endorsement. Talk to the instructor(s) and tell them you want a GSXR600. See what they tell you. Then contact a few motorcycle organizations, including the motorcycle safety foundation, and see what their representatives have to say. Then go look at some beginner bikes. Just hit up the local dealerships, kawasaki and suzuki would be nice. Look and sit on the Kawasaki Ninja 250 and 500. Look/sit on the Suzuki GS500F and SV650. Focus on those specific bikes and not sit on or look at the sportbikes. Just see how you like the beginner bikes. After you've done all that, then make your decision to purchase whatever bike you want to get.

At least weigh your options and do the research by talking to experienced riders.

MPH has to do with EVERYTHING. Sportbikes are NOT forgiving, don't you understand? If a car turns into your lane on the freeway, and you overreact as you swerve to avoid him, there's a good chance that bike is going down.

Oh but wait, you're a responsible 25 year old who won't put himself in that kind of situation.

But you keep forgetting that my skill = situation. I won't be driving out on public roads until I have been driving for a while my friend. By the time I'm on the freeway, I would have been riding long enough to know how to react. Don't assume I'm hopping on the freeway(or leaving my neighborhood area) anytime soon.

If you are the type of person that is not going to stick to what they say they are going to do, then that's your perrogative. But don't assume that I don't stick to what I say I will do.