Rev matching

Sorry noobi question:
What is rev matching?
I drive an autotragic.

everyone who does heel toe technique thinking they see a difference in downshift are people who cant downshift properly or they just do it to make their car sound cool. To me, Heel/toe is about as ricey as putting a wing on a daily driver.

Rev matching

who here does it often? just wondering, for me its a habit, also depends on my mood, so who else does it here?

explain downshifting improperly.... i never abuse the stickshift, so to me downshifting is just as normal as shifting gears up, for example if i'm going 45 and in 4th gear, and suddenly need to accelerate fast i step on the clutch down shift into 3rd let go of the clutch and add little gass, breaking with your gears is even easier you don;t use the gas then.... jest don't do something like going from 5th to 2nd gear....

or you can adjust the way you step on your clutch to give you a smoother shift.

some professional drivers would raise an eyebrow to this one.

I was kinda omitting professional drivers.

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Uh, I think that's considered double clutching, it's kind of a waste of effort with a synchronized transmission. You're taking twice as long to do the same thing.<br />
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The only reason why you heal-toe in the first place is so you can stay in the proper gear at all times, and to take advantage of any engine braking &quot;available.&quot; If done properly, with rev matching or heal-toe, you shouldn't feel anything, no jerky motions from the car, no whip lash, nothing. Also rev matching is just something to save the syncros and cut down on slipping the clutch. If you don't rev match, then you're just abusing your equipment and asking for premature failure.

::Edited::

Rev Matching - I only see this necessary when missing the timing of your shift and you want to blip the gas pedal to match. Normally if you are driving on regular roads (driving at 2-3k rpm), I see no use for Rev Matching unless you want to save your clutch for another year or so..

Heel-Toe - Most people do this just for pure fun. Again, not necessary for daily driving. Most people who need to Heel-Toe are people who are slamming on their brakes while downshifting to get the proper rpm in the next gear. Professional drivers have to do it. Regular everyday drivers don't. If they do, they are just doing it for the fun of it.

Its really about as worthless as double clutching in fact. Modern cars you really don't need to do so unless you autocross or track the car.

As far as CorollasBest's comment on saving valuable time, I would have to semi-disagree. I or anyone I know have never really seen time wasted from not doing any of the techniques above. maybe a split second or so. Preserving the clutch I have to agree on but most people ruin their clutch quicker while practicing to become better. Precise vehicle control in turns I always felt was more due to proper speed and timing rather than shifting. Shifting while turning could be involved but I don't see how that will make your cornering more precise.

So although heel-toe was said not to be a ricey practice, I still feel that unless you actually race, its not needed so i will stand by my comment of "Heel-toe is about as ricey as putting a wing on a daily driver" I drive like an old man now (slowly and carefully)

woah 3 posts went up while typing my comment.. haha

All of the above. Double clutching is what dinosaurs do. Like someone said, it's all synchro now.

I rev match and heel toe on a daily basis. Heel toe is a advance shifting technique and there is nothing ricey about it. Being able to apply proper braking pressure and doing a rev matched down shift requires great timing and control of your car which can only be achived by A LOT of practice. If I'm expected to ONLY heel toe on the track than there is no way in hell i'd be able to do it properly unless I'm at the track every weekend.

I'm not saying you should do it at every stop light but freeway off ramps and interchanges/junctions where braking and downshifting are necessary are great opportunities to practice this technique. The alternative is to simply brake into the corner and bog in the wrong gear until you exit then downshift.. to me that looks much worst.

We need to have this whole thread removed, because we are just loosing face in the automotive community with this bull shit you guys are dragging on here.

Driving a car proper;y takes balance hence the need for matching revs, when you down depress the clutch pedal your engine speed falls close to idle on a down shift if you do rev your engine to the proper speed for the gear that you selected you are just stupidly killing your motor because you are forcing the motor rev up with the adequate amount air to burn the proper a/f mixture. To properly use engine braking you need to let of the gas smoothly after you are fully engaged in the gear.

As for hell and toe, its a good practice if you own stock in a company that manufactures brake pads, because your basically applying power to the wheels while braking. For that matter tis a completely useless technique in front wheel drive cars, because you are transferring weight forward thus causing even more understeer, where as in rear wheel drive cars you power you rear wheel while you front to more braking and thus you gain a certain amount balance thus making that practice worth while.

Come on guys there aren't that many corolla enthusiasts out there keep driving like that and you'll kill your poor rollas.

anyways, whatever the case may be, i enjoy double clutching, of course on the track, its useless, in normal driving, i have fun, and like said earlier, you save your clutch. so what do you guys do in a downshift from 4th to third?
engage clutch, downshift to 3rd, not release clutch the whole way, give gas (so your riding the clutch for this moment), and then let go of the clutch? im just trying to see everyones style, no falmming here

What does air fuel ratio have to do with the price of beans? If you're letting the revs drop after pressing in the clutch, then you're not doing it right AT ALL. It's all an issue of timing, again, if DONE PROPERLY, you won't feel ANYTHING.

Actually, when done properly, there should be no (unintentional) added weight transfer from engine braking. After completing a shift, some of the brake pedal pressure would be removed and the engine braking would take over. Your rate of deceleration would stay the same.

If you're worried about brake pads, staying on the gas and brake at the same time in a rwd car is only gonna burn both the front and rear brakes up faster. And the only reason why you'd need to brake and gas at the same time (in a rwd car) is if you're having horrible understeer, which would mean a bad suspension setup.

Oh, and more weight transfer to the front tires WOULD help combat understeer, not cause more.

Speaking from a Mechanical Engineer/ SCCA/NASA member stand point... What the f*ck are you talking about? There's so many things wrong with what you said I'm not even goina bother.

OK, i'm semi fired up about the responses on this thread. There are so many opinions on rev matching and heeltoe but let me explain my experiences with rev matching.

This is for 93geoprism!!

Before you question any of my driving habits, read this:
For the record, I've NEVER killed a clutch on any of the cars I've driven and owned, EVEN when I was learning how to drive, I never burned or replaced a clutch due to improper driving. Before switching cars, I've driven several 10,000s of miles. So maybe I'm doing something right. I've always driven stick, my parents drive stick, my parents taught me how to drive stick, I took my driver's licence test WITH STICK! I've known about rev matching from my parents, and my parent's even though they don't race or drive agressively often, they know about rev-matching, dbl clutching, and heel toe. They've openly admitted they've never killed a clutch before in their lifetime. There's only been one time in my life I've driven automatic on daily basis, and it was only for 6 months. But my brother's car, and my parent's car were stick, and for the time being, I still drove stickshift when I needed my parent's car. I've driven my friend's trucks and cars which were stick for example when they were too drunk to drive! I haven't driven stick on semi with 13 or 24 gears, I haven't driven stick with a van, but that doesn't mark me down in "DAILY STICK DRIVER EXPERIENCE"

About 90% of the time, I'm following the speed limit. The avg speed limit in the California suburb is 40mph. I don't believe this is careless driving, but I'll do 45 or 50. On the freeways, I DO drive 65mph thats the max speed on the LA metro freeways. Again 90% of the time, I AM following the speed limit. As far as gear shifting goes , my street/city shifting is as follows:
(from a dead stop)
1st: 0-15mph
2nd: 15-25 or 30
3rd: 30-45
4th: 45 and up
if I'm going 50 or 55 in the suburbs, I'll use 5th only if I'm cruising for a long time with out and red lights in the way, and this is usually at night around 2am when I'm looking for racers, (totally kidding)

Freeway shifting (safe driving from a dead stop)
1st: 0-20
2nd: 20-40
3rd: 40-55
4th: 55-65 or 70
5th: final

Now there are those times you just have to gun it! For example some jerk is driving 45 on the slow lane of the freeway in front of you and you need to move to the middle going 70 sometimes 85! You're stuck in 4th gear following this slow-poke. What do you do???

Here's what I do.
-Cruise 45mph tailgating the fool on the freeway, on 4th gear.
-Press the clutch down
-Blip the throttle to aprox. 4500rpm (that's a guess, I'm not in my car, I can't feel it)
-Shift into 2nd gear while simultaniously keeping the revs up at 4500rpm
-Step off the clutch.
-Assuming my rev matching was correct, there should be no jerky movements.
-Switch lanes, accelerate to the speed of the faster lane
-Your speed is probably up to redline or 5500 rpm on 2nd gear, switch accordingly
-Now you can either keep speeding up or go with the flow, and I stick it into 5th gear and level off my speed.

No double clutching here. I was told that double clutching was for the old old ass model T ford. Where if you didn't keep the rpms in the crank spinning, the engine would stall.

A halfway clutch causes slippage, not good for the clutch. Slippage is only okay, when you're taking off, there should only be a good 1-2 seconds of slippage. If you're half-way stepping on the clutch too much, you'll overheat your clutch, this is riding the clutch.

My heel-toe experience. I only use it if I'm slowing down for a long period of time for example going down-hill and slow down following a lot of cars. I will heel toe to gradually slow down and to show the people behind me that I am slowing down. If you don't step on the brakes, the idiot behind you isn't going to see you red tail lights flashing, and might possibly ram you from behind... and goodbye corolla! Heel toe can be used as a safty device.

From my experience, heel toe is just the same as downshifting, but at the same time, rev-matching more often as you switch gears. I've only needed to revmatch and heeltoe if I'm driving an insane amount of speed and I need to slow down quickly but gently with out any jerky movements.

ENGINE BRAKING (for safe driving
This I love. The rule is downshift, into a lower gear and let off the clutch slowly. If you need to engine brake faster, THEN REV-MATCH by rev matching speed from 5th gear to 3rd. or 4th gear speed into 2nd gear. For a non-modded basic 4 cylinder I WOULD NEVER EVER downshift or engine brake (even though you rev match) past 3 gears! That's too much work for the engine. But for slowing down slowly, I just downshift 1 gear down at a time applying light brake pressure.

My downshifting procudure:
65-70mph: 5th gear to 3rd: The car hardly does anything when you downshift from 5th to 4th. (no rev match necessary)
65-45mph: 3rd gear (no rev match necessary)
45-20mph: 2nd gear (no rev match necessary)
If I want to show off and be all ricy next to the civic at the offramp, 20-0mph: I WILL REV-MATCH into 1st gear. I rarely downshift into 1st. RARELY!!!

Speaking from a safe driving point of view, YOU DON'T NEED rev-matching or heel toe. These instances are rare. Save it for the track. It's just a shame that there are a lot of unexperienced "safe" drivers out there that cause us to drive aggressively and require us to do a rev-matched acceleration pull. If you drive within the speed boundaries of each gear (shifting up every 10-15mph) or downshifting one gear at a time and giving yourself ample time and space to slow down, there will be no jerky movements or miniscule whiplash.

Before I go, I do have to explain that my last car which was an 1989 corolla sr5 ae92 had a clutch issue at the end of it's life. BUT!!!!! I drove over 200,000 miles with that car and the clutch and tranny hadn't been replaced since it was bought in 1988. I bought that 1989 corolla sr5 with 143,000 miles from an old dude. At the car's death, i had over 350,000 miles. Clutches do wear out. I saw the clutch and there was no more organic pad left. I ended up junking the car because this was the 5th time in a row the car needed major repair. I wasn't going to pay anymore. Did I kill the clutch? No, it was just wear and tear.

93geoprism,
I hope this answers your preliminary questions.

65mph on LA freeway? Sheesh, when I was there, at 75mph you were still getting mowed down lol.

1st gear downshift? I've never had the balls to do that in the car, seems like WAY too low of a gear (unless I'm going less than 5-10mph or so, but that's different). I have done 1st gear downshifts plenty of times on the bike though, those are FUN.

I do 65 most of the time too. I just stay on the very right slow lane. If anyone honks at me, I will honk back since I'm not doing anything wrong. I personally just had too many close calls and 2 crazy accidents in the past which has made me drive more cautiously....most of the time

this just got interesting lol

leave it to WIKI, you babies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission