ugh life rant...

I know exactly how you feel! It sucks and the worst part is there is nothing you can really do about :sad:

True true true. That is one sad thing being a human.

yessir, i can relate, bra....theres a girl who i dont really ever see myself being with cuz it just wouldnt be right but she is an excellent friend. I just shake my head at the guys she goes out with...not necessarily because i disapprove....just cuz its like, man ur goin out with that guy.....maybe its more of a comparison thing.....like you compare yourself with the other guy and your like im better than that guy...or...what does that dude have that i dont.......ya kno, that kinda thing.....that sorta falls under the category of jealousy but i still dont understand how you can be jealous of someone you dont want to be with....

you guys, i feel the same way
im in love i guess

not to mention the fact that if u ever told her she probably wudnt feel the same way

Been there...one of the worst feelings in the world! :sad:

Rawrg, I'm starting to feel sorry for you people.

If you like a girl, go after her. Is it worth sitting around, being her "friend," when you absolutely know deep down that you want something more? Can you stand watching her move on in fast motion dating other guys, getting into more and more intimate relationships with, and eventually getting married? Are you for some reason hoping she'll turn around and fall in love with you when you do absolutely nothing at all? Do you honestly think she will just wake up one day and realize you were the only one always there for her like a GOOD FRIEND should be and hopelessly fall in love with you? You've been watching too many romantic comedies my friends.

Let's be honest.

You don't love her as a friend. You love her as a potential lover.

You guys complain about having the worst feelings in the world, but none of you complainers have gotten up and done anything about it. How can you force such suffering on yourself?

BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE SCARED.

Scared of losing her. Scared of losing yourself. Scared of losing this thing you hold so sacred.

You must risk your nation to overcome another. You must put your men at war in order to win something. You must be willing to give up something to gain anything.

Friends don't keep secrets do they? Whether or not she likes you or not is something that should be open. And if she doesn't, you shouldn't be sitting around playing this little charade hoping for a miracle to overcome the both of you. You may say "BUT SHE'S WORTH IT, SHE'S SUCH A GREAT FRIEND."

And I'll tell you this. GET OVER IT, YOU WANT MORE. If you even have the capacity to think something like she's worth bypassing your own emotions because she's such a great friend, then it isn't worth it. No one is winning. You are losing, and you are lying to her and you are lying to yourself. Can you sit around and just be her friend and want something more, all the while guys who want that something more with the balls to not sit around and take it, grab your woman?

God damn, have some self-confidence. You're men and you like a woman. We can't deny that. But as complicated as you think it may seem, there is only one simple answer.

GO FOR IT.

Being a man requires the ability to bounce back from your worst moments, but it also requires the ambition to bring you there. It is with the ambition and the will to risk suffering the worst moments possible is the only way you can find your own happiness. Nothing comes without work. And nothing good comes without risk.

Listen up. I know how you guys are feeling, and I tell you this. It wasn't until the moment when I pushed my now girlfriend up against my truck and kissed her, that I realize that the world would be much different if I hadn't. Surges of what you guys consider hidden feelings came out in the open. And everything was realized and abroad.

In the event that she had pushed me away, I would have lost someone. But that would make it obvious that she had not been for me, since she doesn't think that I'm not for her. And I would have grown and move on.

In that sense, it was worth it in every way. I had nothing to lose by being confident and by risking the limits in order to gain.

She'd be lucky to have you and that's the only way you should see it. You guys just need a hit in the face to realize it.

somebody told me to just go for it on here before...i forget who it was...but i did it and i got her...and i couldn't be any happier...i love her...

women are confusing... i once had something special with one... dont really think it will happin again so jump on it when u have the chance

I had that happen to me I though no one was good enough for her and decided to ask her out we were good for a few weeks and then the feelings went away but we both felt that way so we stayed friends. I say go for it and if it doesnt work dont be an asshole about it and i'm sure you still be friends.

i think the fear of embrassment and rejection has alot to do with it, especially since its sum1 u see often since you consider them "a friend", yeah youll be cool afterwards but itll be fuckin awckward as hell if they decline ...

Very true. Often, you develop feelings for someone because you like to be around them...and while you may want the relationship to advance you don't want to risk the time you spend together already.

I've seen this before: a friend asks a girl out, she says no, end of friendship. I count my friendships as valuable, and if she's not interested in me I won't
1. force her to choose between advancing our relationship or ending it
2. risk something as valuable as a friendship with little chance of success
3. Try and force her to adopt my feelings (i.e. "I love you, therefore you should love me")

Sorry for quoting the whole thing. It's late. You can sue me.

I'm glad you got this whole thing worked out...and I'm glad it worked for you...but this isn't Jenny Craig; what works for you may not necessarily work for everyone else.

As I said, I value my friendships, and if it's obvious she doesn't have the same feelings towards me as I have for her, I'm not pushing the issue, for the sole sake of my selfish wants. I keep my feelings to myself, and enjoy the friendship.

There are always secrets in friendships...I have two, maybe three friends that I would tell anything to; the rest of my friends won't hear as much. The level of friendship is determined by how much of your personal life you're willing to impart. It is perfectly healthy, for a friendship, to hide your feelings from someone.

"She'd be lucky to have you and that's the only way you should see it." That is a very selfish way of looking at things. And no, that's not the only way you should see it. Too often these days people ask themselves "what will I get out of this relationship?" and they keep taking, and once there's no more benefit in it for them they break up or divorce. This applies to the way you got your current girlfriend, NRM. You wanted something, so without thinking about what she wants or feels you forced the issue in a particularly strong way. Ever consider that she's your gf now because you forced it on her?

My definition of true love is that you place another person's wants and needs above your own wants and needs. That means if I like a girl, but she doesn't want/need me, then I won't force the issue, nor will I try to convince her that she should want/need me. Instead, I'll do my best as a friend to satisfy any other wants/needs she has, and when we part ways she sure as heck should be better off than when I first met her, or I've failed. This doesn't make me scared, or shy, or any of that; it just means that I care for her.

In case you're wondering, yes I have been through that, for what might be considered an agonizingly long time, yet it wasn't quite so agonizing. Sure, I dreamt of what could have been, but she wasn't meant for me, so instead I helped her in ways few could. I'm glad to say that when she finally exited my life, she was better off because of me, and I was a better man for doing what I did.

YOU are the only person you can control and satisfy in this life. Remember that. Everyone and everything else is OUT of your control. They can dissapear in a heartbeat. Now unless you fess up with the truth, how will you ever know how she feels? It's one of those "riddle me that" questions. Now if you HAVE tried that and you're still friends and you still feel wonderful, GREAT! But if you expect her to fall for you because you do NOTHING, you are absolutely wrong. You have to instill something to get something.

You may call it selfish, you may call it cocky, you may as hell call it confident. But to judge my relationship in that such way is amazing to me. I don't usually bring up my girlfriend in these talks, because people start questioning. I don't force her to do anything. She could leave if she wanted to and my life would still go on. I don't NEED her. No doubt, she makes my life better and it's great and I'm glad I'm with her, but I don't NEED her.

Your definition of true love is the textbook based-on-the movies definition. It's what everyone thinks. But let me break it to you homeboy, true love is just a fantasy.

Let me ask you something. You have 3 BILLION people in the world that are available to you. Now let's break you down to a radius of 25 miles (the distance that you're willing to travel to see your lady), then you have to factor in looks, personality, compassion, does she go to church, is she a right winger? And they all just build up. Your perfect woman, is out of a 3 BILLION and you think there's a true love? Give me a break. Jesus wouldn't even admit it.

You want to talk about my relationship now? I can tell you this. She is having the time of her life right now. I didn't force her into anything, she wanted to be taken. Would you let a girl, you didn't like, kiss you? What kinda uncaring selfish bastard you would be.

So here I am questioning, what's your point in all this? It is okay to be gloomy about a woman? It is okay to not have control of your life because of a woman? It is okay to be IN LOVE with a woman who doesn't love you?

WHY?

Honestly, why would you do such a thing to yourself. I'd quote from the hit movie Win A Date With Tad Hamilton. "If you love someone, if you really love someone, and you don't do everything in your power to let them know, then you are just slapping life in the face." And that my friend, is what you're doing. Slapping life in the face by supressing your emotions, all the normal emotions, just because you think that life is okay now. And you value the friendship.

I find that men have no real best friendships with ugly girls. Is it me or am I wrong? There is always a level of attraction between friendships of different sexes. No doubt about it. Small time friends, sure, have an ugly or two. But when it comes to best and good female friends. You know she's good looking. Especially to you. I wonder why?

Why am I telling guys that she's lucky to have them? Because she IS. How else do you want to see it? You're lucky to have her? You are the in fact lucky one? You know what happens if you think that way? That means you barely deserve her. That means she's better than you. That means you will do things to cater her desires. This isn't Jenny Craig, and I don't have to apply myself to the equation. In fact, leave me out of it. This is common sense in all forms.

You tell me, you would satisfy the needs of a woman who doesn't want/need you.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU DO SOMETHING SO STUPID.

I ask of you, please listen. What does she do to deserve this attention? Not only that, you would do your best as a FRIEND to do this? Okay... so would you do this for a guy? Would you go ahead and satisfy the needs and wants of a MAN who doesn't want/need you? Be honest here guy. This ain't Jenny Craig here, but maybe you should go there, cause you're lying to yourself brother, and maybe she'll straighten you out.

I have spent oh so many years in the dating game. I even went through the phase you're in. But the one MAJOR thing that I learned is that I am the only one in control of my life. That's right, ME. I am the only one who can control it. And if I can't go after my ambitions and the way I feel, based on the way someone else feels, I am backhanding my every waking moment that God has given me, right in the face. If I feel it, I do it. Call it selfish, but I wake up every morning, look myself right in the face, and tell myself.

"Man, yesterday was worth it."

And ya know what? Today is gonna be worth it too.

hahaha we should start a LOVE forum lol.... that sucks T but I've been there as a matter of fact I'm there right now... it's crazy I hate it, I can't sleep, I can't eat in peace or do anythin normally when I think about it.... DAMN IT!!! lol....

P.S - NRM...dood those posts are incredibly long dood lol... it's like a newspaper article or sumtin lol

www.yagt.org

I dk man human kind is really strange when it comes to feelings and all that bullzh!t u kno.... MEH! lol

I won't quote the post again but we know who I'm replying to.

Your post changes little of my fundamental statements.

Most relationships today are, by nature, selfish. The movie definition of true love is not my definition; if you look around today, even in most fairy tale movies there's a hint of "what's in it for me." (And it's funny you should accuse my definition of love as coming from the movies, while you yourself quote a movie ). My definition of true love is simple and broad, and is not necessarily romantic: "Putting someone else's wants and needs above your own wants and needs." This phrase is all-inclusive; there's no "except for this" clause in there. It is complete and unconditional; and it is not a fantasy, because I have seen it, and try to practice it myself.

If you wonder why your relationship with your girlfriend is being questioned, you should look at your other posts in similar topics. Your attitude towards women is quite plainly revealed. That, coupled with the "She'd be lucky to have you and that's the only way you should see it" attitude and the way you broke the ice to her left serious doubts as to how into you she was. Apparently I was wrong. I'm glad she likes you. Enjoy the relationship while it lasts.

Again, in line with the selfish theme, a relationship based on "what do I want" cannot last indefinitely. I assume you kissed her because you wanted her; therefore you were acting out of your own wants and needs. I don't know whether you made any effort to find out if she wanted you, but from what I know I doubt that you did. As soon as she has nothing more to offer you, it's over, and you know it. This is why there are so many divorces today. Once there's no more benefit (because both partners are taking, not giving), it's over.

"I find that men have no real best friendships with ugly girls. Is it me or am I wrong?" You're not necessarily wrong, you just need to stop hanging out with shallow men. Some of my best female friends have been ugly in the world's eyes. To paraphrase Martin Luther King Jr. "I hope for a day when people will not be judged by looks, but by the content of their character." Go outside and sit in your car. Realize that your sitting on 10 pound of fuel that are ready to blow up at a moment's notice. Then go to Google and look up Jason Schecterle. 3rd degree burns over the vast majority of his body; he had no nose, hair, or ears, because they literally melted off. He and his wife have stayed together. Why? Because their love was more than skin deep.

"Okay... so would you do this for a guy? Would you go ahead and satisfy the needs and wants of a MAN who doesn't want/need you?" If he was a very good friend, you bet I would, just not in a romantic way. Again, "placing someone's wants/needs above your own wants/needs." These wants/needs don't need to be romantic, and love doesn't need to be romantic. There's brotherly love, the love between a child and his/her parents, and many other kinds, all to varying degrees and types.



Now I'll give more details about my specific example. On the outside, this girl wasn't exactly a hottie, but not exactly ugly either; due to our being a very small school (and the resulting small selection) she had several guys interested in her. On the inside, however, she had an amazing personality, it was absolutely brilliant, yet no one really seemed to care for it. Incredibly deep on the inside, once you got to know her.

I really liked her, but I kept it to myself. Why did I do this? Because she would not have gone out with me. Period. She never dated anyone, partly because of poor selection (most of the guys interested in her were immature), partly because she didn't feel like dating anyone while still in high school. My chances were zero, and being in a small school, rumors spread like a Santa Ana wildfire (something I've been on the wrong end of more than once). So please keep in mind, if I ask her out, not only will I get a no, but serious and nasty things will come as a result.

She did not have a want or need of me in specific, but rather something that I had, and it was something that very few people in the school could provide: help in a class. She was struggling, and I wasn't; in fact, I was doing very well, it was almost a breeze. With no possible benefit for myself, I started helping her, and she pulled her grade up from an F to a B.

Why did I do this "stupid" thing? Do I count it joy when I watch someone else suffer, especially if I cared for them? Must I always receive payment when services are rendered? There was much at stake between her passing and failing, but none of it was of my concern. Yet I chose to help her anyway. Why?

Because I'm not selfish. I'm selfless. It truly is better to give than to receive, though I'm sure you don't understand how that could be possible. I did it because I cared. I did not expect any favors back, much less her "falling" for me, and indeed I received nothing in return. But put me in the same situation a hundred times, knowing the outcome, and I'd do the same thing every time.

Apparently you can't fathom the idea of doing someone without expecting something in return. Not that I blame you; society has imbued us with a mindset of always being "equal," that when someone does something for you, you automatically owe them a favor. While this is practical in some settings (like a professional or business relationship), it doesn't fare well in the personal realm.

You can call me stupid, ignorant, unsuccessful (but what is success?), lying or tricking myself, whatever. But I will stand by my actions, because if during my life I can help make the lives of those around me better, than it was worth it.

lol -- referenced from Anandtech.com's Off Topic forum..

My God, has the plague spread.

Let me explain something to you. John Locke once wrote a criticism to Plato's theory of innate ideas. John lock states that the world that we live in today is based completely on sensory experience. The way we act, the way we speak, the way we THINK, is all based on details outside of our control.

I riddle you this.

If a baby is born without any sensory capabilities. He can't see, can't feel, can't smell, can't taste, and can't hear. Does that baby think?

Yes / No answers in the crowd?

Well for those who answer

"OF COURSE, ALL HUMANS ARE INDIVIDUALISTIC AND HE HAS HIS OWN MINDSET ALREADY. OF COURSE HE THINKS!"

And John Locke would reply.

"About what?"

You see, the world wants you to be this thing that you think you are. This Godforsaken guy who cares too much. But nature advised against it, nature is pulling you away from it, nature isn't the one who condoned it. You look at yourself and you think you're different from people like me, like you're the prize in a package of Wheaties. Well, I'll tell you this. 98% of the population is JUST LIKE YOU and NOT LIKE ME. And that's the reason the divorce rate is so high. Guys get together with women who do things that they can't stand, but they are so loving they look past it. And when the man hit their breaking point. It's over and out. And that is why there are guys like me who actually devote sometime in straighting guys who have their priorities all mixed up. I learned my lesson the very hard and long way.

I'm not asking for guerrilla tactics here my friend. I'm asking you to be honest. When it comes down to it, who REALLY is more important? Don't answer just yet, just listen. To LOVE is one thing, it's a stronger word than you could ever believe. So unless you really believe you are REALLLLY IN LOVE with all these people, leave it out of this. I never understood those people who are oh so callous about it. And to not be in an actual relationship with a person and want to satisfy all their needs and wants before yourself, you must be insane.

It's one thing to do it for another motive. Secret underlying message or otherwise, but to do it just to do it, you are lying to me and you're lying to yourself. Everything has a motive.

You're not asking about relationships here. You seem like you just want friends. In which case, I cannot help you. If you just want friends, then it's as easy as a "HI" to the person you are interested in a friendship with. But I doubt you would post such long replies if you were just interested in making friends.

You know what the best advice I have ever given any man was?

"So you like her, get up and do something about it."

There is just something in this culture about supressing your own emotions and your own ambitions and your OWN feelings to satisify someone elses. Because that makes you a better person. Even when you could have no idea how the other person feels.

So here's your advice that you would like to give to the male population. Don't be confident, don't believe in yourself, put others before you, if everyone wants her, she's too good for you, if you really like her, keep it to yourself, don't be selfish, be selfless, do everything, expect nothing, make the lives of others better, not your own.

You are the only person you can control in your lifetime. You have many possibilities with many different outcomes in store for you. You should have ambitions, dreams, and yes SELFISH ambitions and dreams, things that YOU want to accomplish in this lifetime. Selfish as in confident enough that you can do it on your own. Nature instilled it in men to like action movies, to be bigger than women, to have at least SOME MASCULINITY in themselves. But you know what, the world doesn't want that. Your mom doesn't want that.

Your mom recommends that you treat women like princesses, that you buy them flowers, you wash the dishes, you make her happy. All the while your mother is describing everything your FATHER ISN'T.

I have help countless numbers of men realize who they really are. After being capivated and turning into the product that society just pushed onto them, they realized that there is just more to life than just women.

I'm not saying be an asshole, I'm not saying be a prick. I'm saying BE A MAN. Be the person in control of your life. Step up to the plate and swing like the world has never seen. Not for anyone else, but for you. Because in the shallow grave, you are never buried on top of another, it is just you and yourself.

You're the type of person who would never go up to your girlfriend and exclaim "I WANT SEX." In fear that she doesn't. Are your wants and needs not as important as hers? WHAT MAKES HER SO DAMN SPECIAL MAN? Cause she has breasts and fits in a dress?

Yes, when I write articles, I put my ideas to the extreme. But that is because most men are on the other extreme of the spectrum. I actually talked to a man today, and I was telling him that I finally broke down and bought my girlfriend something. And he started telling me about how he always wins a girl's affection before he dates them. So I ask, "Jeez how do you do that?" And he simply says, "Oh I buy them stuff." You can imagine how extreme I had to be on his face to set him straight, but I honestly believed that after our conversation, he saw his life in a new light. He had been spending way too much money, way too much time, way too much everything on women, and not himself.

I hate to straggle off topic, but I want you to look at your life. You say you really are satisfied at just helping others. And it is more important to your than anything. Well I ask you what kind of world are you living in? Are you living on the street and devoting all your money towards charities? Do you actually believe what you mean?

It's easy to say such things on paper, but you turn around and no you aren't just selfless, you are absolutely selfish.

My girlfriend answered one of those surveys today. One of the long ones that no one really checks out. But she answered some questions about relationships. Such as, why she likes her boyfriend. Her response?

"He makes me laugh, I have fun with him, I love being with him, and when I'm not with him, I miss him to death."

I didn't have to give her anything besides my company for all that to take place. She doesn't expect anything, I don't expect anything. Once we start getting into unbalanced relationships and negative reciprocity as you are such a prime example, that's where the problems start, and that is where your truth lies.

So I ask you once again. How do you absolutely know that this woman who you state you "REALLY REALLY LIKE," doesn't like you. How much have YOU tried? And what are YOU expecting to happen... really.

If you can like a person and not do something about it, what are you honestly waiting for? Her to do something about it? I feel sorry for you, you disadvantaged yourself from the beginning. Instead of waking up, looking yourself in the mirror, and saying "Hey there good lookin', you're the best." You told yourself, "I'm not good enough."

Tell me what is the preferred choice of life?

You keep telling me, odds were zero, odds were zero, I had no chance, it wouldn't have happened, I liked her, but it wouldn't have happened.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW UNLESS YOU TRY?

If you are okay with sitting the rest of your life on the sidelines, then please do so, you're not even worth speaking to. You're a spectator in a full contact sport. You know what's going on, but you refuse to get up and do something about it. You enjoy the game, but will never get into it, because your fears and inambitions hold you back relentlessly.

YOU LIKE HER, BUT YOU REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. NOT ONLY THAT, YOU KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS, BUT IT MEANS NOTHING.

Tell me what part of being human that is. And I'll tell you that you're disrespecting the lives that God has given us.

You seem to mistaken my posts as just posts about love and reciprocity. All the while I want you to know more than that. You're not only a man. You are THE MAN. Women aside, how do you honestly call yourself selfless and not concentrate on your life and focus on your ambitions, and focus on your goals, and wake up every morning feeling like today is a new day, I should seize it. Instead, you feel it is better to withdraw, to hide your feelings, to carry your emotions in a napsack only to be released by someone willing to grab it and open it. My man, you are worthy of so much more.

You say I am taught this by society. I was taught what you're preaching right now from society. WATCH TV. The only GOOD that you see is the GOOD that you speak of. YOU ARE THE PROGRAM OF SOCIETY. I'm the one trying to break free. Man, you have so much to learn and you don't even know it. I wish you good luck on your journey of life. You're holding back on something so great.

haha yea specially NRM dood... he should work for like Import Tuner mag or somethin man u should really do that man u can write some article lenght shit man....if I could come up wit like a line or two that's a miracle dawg lol...too lazy hehehe

I must say this is one of the most interesting and intellectually stimulating conversations I've had on the internet.

Vortex I'm sorry for hijacking your thread

We obviously are not looking at the same society and watching the same TV, so I will end all discussion on the effects these have.

Your arguments on Nature and what is "natural" to do and what "life" should do are irrelevant. Of all the creatures on Earth, humans have been gifted with an ability to defy the course of nature. If I wanted to, I could start a hunger strike right now, for a full 40 days until I died. You could do the same, and any other human being could do the same, if they really wanted to. It's about conscious choice. Animals are relegated to a basic survival instinct; everything they do contributes to their survival in some way. Humans can bypass that survival instinct. A few examples include suicide (not by mentally ill people, that's a different story; the Samurai in Japan are a great example) and touching a pot of boiling water. Neither of those things contribute to your survival, but they can be done willingly. Obviously, after a certain time touching the pot most people's instincts will override them, but a good example of people with full control of their survival instinct are people walking over a bed of coals.

My point with all of that is that just because it's the natural thing to do, doesn't mean I will do it. And just because it's not the natural thing to do, doesn't make it wrong. For example, if a very hot girl walks down the street, you may get some natural impulses to do certain things, but you supress them. You may, of course, choose to try and earn the right to do this, but you don't run over to her in the middle of the street and screw her.

You obviously don't know my mother well...nor do you know my father either...for that matter how I was raised...therefore you are unqualified to discuss any of those things and I take extreme offense to the things you insinuate about my mother and father's relationship. Do not make this mistake again.

I know there's more to life than women, and I don't spend much time thinking about them. I realize that my posts make that sound different, but they were the topic of this thread...

What would you know about God's plan for my life?

I expected nothing to happen. I had no motive, except to help her. She had made it public knowledge that she wasn't dating until after high school, and most likely not until after a few years of college. I have three fingers up right now, and it represents the number of times she flirted with me (using a liberal definition) in the six years I knew her...compared to the daily flirting I witnessed in some of my classes with certain guys.

There are other personal issues that prevent me to this day from seriously seeking a relationship with a woman. All you need to know is that I really wasn't good enough for her; she deserved a lot better person than me.

She had a need, something only I could supply (no one else in the class was doing that stellar), she had nothing she could give in return, and there were some very big stakes attached to this. I chose to help her because she was my friend, and I cared for her.

This is my life, my decisions will be mine alone, and I am fully cognizant of their impacts. I have no qualms staying single for the rest of my life; if I make that choice, it's mine alone, and you'll have to accept that. I don't run around dropping on the floor like a doormat for everyone. I'm not living on the street, having donated all my money (as this would prevent me from helping anymore); I take care of my needs, I don't have many wants in this life, and for those I really care about I am willing to sweep both away for their sake. I value the lives of others more than my own, simply because I choose to. It really does bring me joy to help others. It's very easy to say that, sure, but let me tell you that I do my best to live that out.

You can call this whatever you want...and you can say all the nasty stuff you can, but I am not affected. I stand firm in my decisions, knowing better than you what's best for me.

MY GOD. If only you said you weren't interested in dating and relationships. It would have been all too simple.

THIS TOPIC is about guys who are in love with their BEST FRIENDS. Not some stranger off the street or some girl they fell for even though they BARELY KNEW HER. These guys know these girls, inside and out. But they are surpressing their emotions why? Would it not pain them more to try than never try at all and always have the aching wondering in their soul of what it would have been like?

YOU are vouching for MEN to do nothing about their emotions because it is OKAY to NOT DATE, it is OKAY to NOT GO AFTER SOMETHING IF YOU THINK WE AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, it is OKAY TO THINK YOU'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, IT'S OKAY TO PUT OTHERS BEFORE OURSELVES.

Well ya know what, you're preaching to the wrong crowd here. And you're disagreeing with the wrong person for all the wrong reasons.

But you're a smart guy. Obviously I wasn't speaking out YOUR MOM or YOUR DAD since I don't even know them. It was a generalization. Common sense does play a big part in understanding.

And I don't speak of God as a planner. He has given us free will for the price of suffering and all the evil in the world. I speak of God as a creator, whether it be a man, a soul, or just a finite chance in a infinite universe. So what God has planned for you is all in your beliefs. But what God did was give you life. And if you're not willing to take advantage of that, you're in a whole new ballpark that I could never help.

What you do is your business. The advice I give is general advice to those who are willing to listen. Follow your dreams, capture your ambitions, wake up every morning and say "There ain't nothing I can't handle," be true to yourself, learn more, improve yourself every waking moment that you can, be strong, be bold, be decisive, be compassionate, conquer all that you can while you can, because you are man and you will not live forever.

I didn't tell anyone to be a jackass, I didn't tell anyone to treat others poorly, I didn't tell people to not do all the nice things you do.

If you are like this, of course she is lucky to have you. You're wonderful. You have goals, ambitions, and all the things in the world that YOU HOLD DEAR TO YOU. In fact, why wouldn't she be lucky to have you? Why do you always have to be lucky to have her?

You don't.

I still cannot believe that you thought so much, but all about the wrong topics. You expect nothing, want nothing, enjoy making internet threats in BOLD, you don't care for women, you don't mind being single for the rest of your life, AND HAVE SERIOUS PERSONAL ISSUES THAT YOU WON'T DISCUSS THAT WITHHOLD YOU FROM HAVING A SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP WITH A WOMAN.

My man, you are alone in a crowded room. This isn't the point of the topic. You aren't the point of this topic. All your values are very different than the men that have posted earlier. Because they aren't having these serious personal issues that hold them back from women, and they do care for women, and they do mind being single for the rest of their life, and they do EXPECT SOMETHING and they do WANT EVERYTHING, because it is in them to proceed with natural development of life.

I do not understand how you can defend the idea of holding back, when your mind wants to be set free. Of course, you aren't going to hump some women because of natural instincts, you're human, you're smarter than that. But would it be stupid to talk to the woman? To get in a conversation with the woman, to get the number of the woman, to date the woman, to find out if there was a spark that initially grabbed your attention and created the attraction to begin with? Common sense once again will lead the way, but it takes a little confidence with a dash for daring and will to do such a thing. How CAN you condone that?

I say it again, be free, be ambitions, set your goals high, believe in yourself, do things for yourself, improve yourself, be confident in what you can do and what you say, understand, listen, be men, run into obstacles you know will be tough, because life is your playing field and we're all just getting started.

So if you like a woman, my God, do something about it. Do not tremble in fear just because you don't know if she likes you. She could just be wondering the same thing and you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA. You're a great guy and she'd be lucky to have a great guy like you. Success isn't based on a win / lose. Success is based on how much you try and how you feel afterwards. Don't supress your emotions, set them free and live your life like tomorrow won't be just another day.

renfield90, interesting conversation, but I think you're too lost into this and you're now disagreeing with all the wrong things. I hope you a better life in the future and to reach for those stars that you have limited yourself so far. You aren't as disadvantaged as you think you are, never put yourself down, for whatever reason. You ARE good enough. Quit thinking so different.