Engine How it works:...

How it works:...

So apparently there is some confusion about how a short shifter works. A short shifter is indeed NOT a stock piece that has been cut down.

" A common misconception in the industry is that a short throw shifter is just a chopped off version of the stock shifter, in reality it is a much more complex part. The geometry of a short throw shifter has been altered in such a way as to reduce the distance that the upper section of the shifter needs to move to achieve the same degree of movement in the lower section. The pictures below illustrate the stock throw versus the reduced throw of the TWM short shifter.

The amount that the throw and knob height of a shifter can be reduced by is dependent upon driver comfort and the throw and height of the stock shifters. Some of our shifters reduce the throw by more than 60% and the knob height by well over 4", others offer smaller reductions in order to ensure that the optimal knob position and shift throw for that specific car is maintained"

http://www.twmperformance.com/faq/#1

Not to rant about it, but cutting down a stock shifter serves about as much purpose as a 7 foot wing on our front wheel drive cars.

Barnacules.

This isn't an attack on him though. Just a general clarification.

considering just how many people share this misconception, this was a good move.

yea and if what i posted in the other part regarding the short shifter sounded like an attack it wasnt ment to, so if it did im sorry, after reading over it, it kinda sounded a little bit**y. so sorry barnacules.

never said it wasnt dumb just dont wanna sound like im bashing someone. Because at some point we all didnt know.

More energy to go a shorter distance.

The purpose of the short shifter though is to help us out, make things easier on us. The essence behind cutting one down in turn makes us use more energy, which to a degree defeats the purpose.

I'm not saying you are wrong James, I'm just a big fan of not cutting down stock parts for gains (shifter, springs, w/e else you can cut)

however, nobody here has talked about the effects shifting hard/fast has on the transmission.... and then the effects of throwing a shorter shift distance (even harder/faster shifts) has.... IE, worn/broken syncro's

and james is completely right.

also, i've seen cars (and driven) with just cut springs that handle incredibly well.... better than the same cars with aftermarket suspension.....

After a while though, those cut springs will become crap. Each coil on the spring is meant to hold x amount of wait. So if you cut out 2 of the 5 coils on each spring that means the remaining coils will have to hold an exaggerated amount of weight (I'm to tired to do the math on how much more weight) so over time the cut springs have a high tendency of snapping under pressuse which as I've said before puts you and every one else on the road in danger.

OMFG! He actually started a thread on this. Hahaha But someone feels a little threatened.

Facts
1) When you cut down the shifter you are changing the fulcrum point and reduce the throw.
2) Adding length below the fulcrum point will reduce the ammount of force needed to make the shift (traditional short shifter), however in our cars I have found that the gears feel much more crisp when you simply reduce the top length.
3) I have a TRD short shifter that I purchased (complete unit) and I was not nearly as impressed with it as my stock cut down shifter, so I cut down my TRD short shifter also, so I have experienced all of the posibilities.
4) Each driver has distinctly difference tastes on feel and distance when it comes to shifting. However this has no relevence on the fact that changing the top length above the pivot point will reduce the throw.

Do you deny these facts?

Yeah short shifters can put your syncro's at risk, I blew out my 2nd gear syncro about a month after chopping down my shifter because I could effectily shift from 1st to 2nd without dropping 100rpms The jolt the car gave you when you dropped the clutch was amazing but looking back it was not worth my syncro's death However my 3rd, 4th and 5th are still in great shape!

By the way, does anyone know how much it would cost at a transmission shop for a syncro job on a 01 Rolla provided it was taken to them out of the car already. I figure since I have to drop in a new motor I might as well take in the tranny and get it fixed up nice if it doesn't cost too much.

^^^ just watch for people parting their cars or something & get a cheap tranny....

a friend of mine has an mr2 (mk1) that he bought with cut springs almost 2 years ago.... he's done several auto-x'es, rally's, road course racing, and used it as a daily driver

Thats actually a good idea. I should see if they will give me a break on a tranny if I buy it with the new motor. I'm have located 3 1zz-fe's but they want $750 for them. Maybe I can offer them like $800 - $900 with tranny. Good idea.

You're point? Are you implying I feel threatend by you?

For your facts:

A 'chopped short shifter' will undoubtly change the overall height of the short shifter which does mean there is less distance to be travelled. However when you buy a short throw shifter you are getting one that is not only shortened, but one that has a different pivot point to decrease the distance even further. Why half *** something?

Yeah, everyone can have their own opinion on it. You may like the feel of the chopped shifter and I may like the feel of a short shifter. Well now because of your input people can get both sides of the arguement and see which they prefer

1) Because it's under $20
2) Because saying that its half *** because you only gain in one area is ignorant. Just like me saying its stupid for you to install a real short shifter unless you also change out the linkage with something more high performance, yes it would increase the effect but to what end?
3) Because I appearently half *** everything My 7" touch screen was fiberglassed in by hand and even though it looks perfect I should have had some company vaccum form it with ABS plastic. I also cut out the back housing of my head light assemblies to fit Porsche HID projectors in them, I probably should have had housings custom molded by chip foose because it would have turned out better, etc

Have you ever used a chopped shifter? or do you simply think you wouldn't like it?

I agree, I'm not saying a real short shifter is not the way to go for some people. But honestly there is quite a bit of difference between the TWM shortshifter and TRD shortshifter but they are both short shifters but feel completely different. Hell I'll even toss in the B&M which has a weighted botom. But the bottom line is you should not discredit it as a short shifter since it is a loose term given to any shifter that reduces the throw.

Now that doesn't even pertain to anything. Lol. This was an post to point out what a short shifter is, not an arguement. Maybe some one should just lock this post so it doesn't turn into anything stupid and negate the purpose of the original post.

How does that pertain to anything? You asked me why someone would do something half assed and I answered? I would like to add that this thread originally started as an arguement with your original post. You could have kept replying to the thread this subject first came up in but you decided to take it outside as a post with the following comment below on the first post.

"Not to rant about it, but cutting down a stock shifter serves about as much purpose as a 7 foot wing on our front wheel drive cars."

As for locking the post I really don't care But I think we should agree to disagree. I have openly said that I see both sides, yours and mine. However you still seem to be trying to fight it out? And now your trying to get the thread locked. You started this thread?

I disagree, draw a triangle and measure the lengths. The idea of the short shifter is to change how far you need to move your hand to get from 'x' gear to 'y' gear. And cutting down the shifter will acheive that, granted it will feel a bit different then if you added length to the bottom in terms of force required but our cars already have pretty soft gears so it actually ends up making the gears more crisp.

Code:

\---------/ -> This is a longer distance
  \         /
   \-----/ -> This is a shorter distance 
     \   /
       \/

Sorry about my crappy ASCii drawing skills

I agree that the angle does not change but the overall distance beween point 'x' and point 'y' is reduced. I beleive the distance is far more important then the angle.