All of my supercharging and engine swap questions

ok, lets take this from the top.

the 1zzfe:
Non VVTI models = 120 hp at 5600 rpm with 122 ft·lb of torque at 4400 rpm,
VVTI 8th gen = 125hp at 5600 rpm with 122 ft lbs of torque at 4200 rpm
9th gen Corolla/Matrix = 130hp at 6200 rpm with 125.8 ft lbs of torque at 4200 rpm
Celica GT/MR2 Spyder =140 hp at 6400 rpm with 126 ft·lb of torque at 4200 rpm

the 2zzge:
the us spec celica gts is supposed to make 187hp and 130ftlb of torque. the 9th gen corolla xrs and matrix xrs make 178hp and ths SAME 130ftlbs..

where does a 1zz make more torque than a 2zz? it doesnt. it is all feel. it feels like it makes more torque, because it was designed to be that way.

heres a mod for mod dyno from ddpr of a 1zz spyder that got 2zz swapped.

70 whp and 30ftlbs difference. this is measured at the wheels. thats a pretty huge difference if you ask me. this was stock ecu on both engines. look at the torque lines. nearly identical, just the 2zz makes more of it and for longer.

i dont mean to be a dick, but my car is slow compared to most 2zz powered vehicles. its all in the driver. i have seen intake and exhaust celica gts's go 13.9 in the quarter with a damn good driver. i have no shot of doing that without a serious power adder or a 2zz swap.

now, on to the supercharger. yes, in theory you could use it. but do you know the size of the supercharger pulley? you will need to know it in order to find out how much boost it will run. since superchargers are belt driven, they use a blower to crank pulley ratio to spin the blower faster than the crankshaft. this is so it pumps more air than the engine can ingest at xxxx rpm and thus positive pressure is made because it forces it into the engine. hence the term forced induction. now if the supercharger pulley is the same size as the crank pulley, or worse larger, it wont create pressure. it will be a restriction.

now a brief rundown in eaton superchargers. the most common ones you will deal with are the m62 and m90. these came on many different oem applications. the next up would be the m112. the numbers in the model tell you how much air the rotors displace per ONE revolution of the supercharger. this measurement is in cubic inches.
examples:
m45 = 737.4178831185cc's
m62 = 1015.9979722966cc's
m90 = 1474.835766237cc's
m112 = 1835.3511757616cc's (bigger than the 1zz/2zz)
the down side to a supercharger is it take power to turn them. the larger the blower, the more power needed. most superchargers also have a limited rpm they can turn before they run into issues. i know the m45 doesnt like to turn past 12k, the m62 is around 14k and the m90 is 15k. so this also comes into play when choosing which one to slap on your engine.

so, what size is that pulley? are you running a stock crank pulley? do you know its diameter? does the m62 share the same 6 rib belts as the 1zz?

these are a better example of the questions you should be asking and searching for the answers. now i know for a fact, yes it does use a 6 rib belt, so your good there. the others i dont. but lets just play with some numbers for now..
heres a blower calc:
http://performancetrends.com/Calcul...-Calculator/Supercharger-Boost-Calculator.php
Blower Belt Ratio
Engine Vol. Efficiency, % 70%_Old_Prod.80%_Modern_Prod.90%_Improved100%_Street/Strip110%_Race120%_Good_Race130%_Best_Race
Blower Vol. Efficiency, % 70%_Leaky75%_Old_Design80%_Good_Old85%_Modern90%_Improved95%_Race100%_Perfect
Engine Displacement Units Cubic_InchCCsLiters
Engine Displacement (Liters)
Blower Displacement Units Cubic_InchCCsLiters
Blower Displacement (Cubic_Inch)
Pressure Units PSIInches_MercuryMM_MercuryMillibar
Barometric Pressure (PSI)

Note: Blower Belt Ratio of 1.57 is also called 57% Overdrive. Boost shown in units of PSI

Blower Boost

18.77psi

now, take out the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi and you will find that the m62 on a 1.57:1 ratio will make 4.07 psi. so lets kick it up to say 1.75 and see what happens... WHAMMO 23.84psi. minus that 14.7 and you have 9.14 psi. a decent starting point, but could also break the stock rods cus you are moving a FUCK TON more air than a m45 at 10psi. about 24% more.

enough ranting, ill save it for sunday when i make my end all fi thread.
Added: Apr 6, 2013 at 3:06 AM

ill see what i can do for that.

yeah i just realised that the copy from the calc didnt work too well and im too tired tonight to type all the math out. lol. i thought it was just easier to do this. plus its 3:13 am and i have to be back up at 9 am to go pull a transmission for a 03 acura tl type s.. thats just the start of my day tomorrow. no rest for the wicked.

na it's ok I'll go with it

Holy Jesus, this is not a joke. I'm keeping this in my notes.
Added: Apr 8, 2013 at 8:23 PM

ok

Well lol if you insist ....

Do you know why people don't us the GM version of the TRD 1zzfe Supercharger ? I did some research on the GM supercharger and people are choosing TRD over GM. Aren't they both the same thing with different names ?

This is heading to the F/I turbo section, Can the Izzfe use the following

Nissan SR20DET Garrett T25 Turbo Charger or the RB25DET T28 nissan garret turbo.

In your opinion, what kind of turbochargers do you think the non vvti 1zzfe can use, beside the super 60 trim from Garrett ?

Owned.

well, both turbos have their pro's and cons. but they are almost the same size. the bigger difference being the rb25 turbo is actually a t3 framed turbo. but its a small one. good for about 300hp before it is into surge territory. about the same with the sr20 t25 as well. it is one of the largest oem t25's you can get your hands on. but 250-280hp capable before it will get into compressor surge. both will spool about the same really. the rb25 turbo being slightly slower by a few hundred rpm. (2600 vs 3000 as an example, not actual points)

its all about turbo sizing. you can in theory use any turbocharger you want, but you dont want to over spin it or get it into the surge territory. you want to try to keep your engine in the most efficient spots of the map or the sweet spots
im going to borrow this from turbo mag, simply because it is well written and easy to understand.

When it comes to building boost, compressor wheel selection is the make-or-break decision facing the pressure-craving enthusiast. Too often ego enters the equation and when starry-eyed enthusiasts run big wheels, performance is the loser.
First, you need to be logical and realistic. Second, you need a compressor map to get a ballpark idea of what wheel will best fit your application.
A compressor map is a snapshot of the wheel's efficiency laid out on an X-Y axis graph. Let's break down a map by the numbers and plug in some hypothetical applications. Going into this process you need to first know how much power you intend to make and have an idea of how much boost you expect to run. The mechanical limitations of your engine and its displacement would be deciding factors in these estimates.
1)Pressure Ratio
The pressure ratio along the X-axis represents the boost you intend to run. The numeric pressure ratio value is calculated by taking the expected psi, adding one atmosphere (14.7) and dividing that number by one atmosphere (14.7).
2) Airflow
The Y-axis represents airflow in pounds per minute. As a general rule, each pound of air generated represents 10 hp. We are talking flywheel horsepower, so if you, like myself, think in "wheel time," make allowances for driveline losses. It is along this line where you estimate engine power output.
3) Efficiency Island
Not fantasy island, so be real here. This is the bull's-eye of efficiency. The center island is where the turbo is at its peak efficiency.
4) Wheel Efficiency
The outer rings of the graph represent reduced efficiency. The numbers and how much they drop off varies from compressor wheel to compressor wheel as does the corresponding loss of power potential.
5) Surge Limit
Any points plotted to the left of the Surge Line indicate the wheel in question is too big for the expected boost and power output. There would not be enough exhaust flow energy to spin the wheel fast enough to generate viable boost.
6) Overspin Choke
Any points plotted to the right of the graph mean the wheel in question is too small and will have to spin too quickly to make the expected boost/power. At these extreme wheel speeds, efficiency goes out the door because the wheel chops the air so badly that the pore density of the charge air will likely cause a dramatic loss of power.
7) Compressor Wheel Speed
This measurement, illustrated as lines across the graph, represents the shaft speed of the wheel. Remember, the faster it spins, the hotter the charge air. This is why they invented intercoolers
The missing pieces of the puzzle here are the engine's redline speed, the A/R of the turbine side and the volumetric efficiency of the engine. How fast an engine runs will impact the shaft speed of the turbo and when optimal efficiency is realized. The turbine side of the turbo will determine the spool-up characteristics and responsiveness of the unit. Turbine performance and engine redline speed are closely related, and together both of these factors will have a dramatic effect on the efficiency of the compressor wheel.
Further, an engine that has better volumetric efficiency, usually by way of cylinder head modification, will be able to flow more air and consequently require a different wheel than the same model of engine with no valvetrain tweaks. The compressor map is just an estimate that quickly indicates if the wheel in question will work based on two factors.
A map is not the end-all turbo-sizing tool. Turbonetics has a Turbo Match Spread-sheet program that takes into consideration the above listed items as well as fuel enrichment, intake temperatures and intercooler effectiveness to help pinpoint the proper compressor wheel for a given application.


Charting A T04E 57-trim Compressor WheelUsing a 15-psi max boost level the pressure ratio tallies 2.02. Plotting 2.00, we see peak efficiency will be realized when the wheel is moving 26 to 33 lb/min of airflow, which is capable of supporting 260 to 330 horsepower. If the engine in question is tuned to pump out 400 horses this T04E 57-trim wheel will need to see a rise in max boost to about 23 psi. Can the engine handle that kind of pressure? Does it have forged pistons and upgraded rods?

Even at this setting the efficiency is in the second ring. Also, look what happened to the wheel speed. It went from around 87,000 rpm to nearly 106,000. This will heat the charge air even more, working the intercooling system. While this wheel would get it done at 400 hp, a move to a bigger wheel may be better while also leaving some wiggle room for turning up the boost at a later date when the engine and/or the fuel system etc. are modified to handle the extra pressure.
Shaded Area
Peak efficiency for this compressor will be realized on an engine running 15 psi that is expected to generate 260 to 330 hp.
Dot-1
Here we see where 15 psi and 300 hp plots; right in the peak efficiency island.
Dot-2
With expectations of 23 psi and 400 hp, efficiency is bumped into the second ring. Wheel speed goes from 87,000 rpm at Dot 1 to more than 106,000 rpm here. Intercooling will be of prime importance. Can the engine handle 23 psi?
Dot-3
Expecting 15 psi and 450 hp, we see the combination plot outside the map in the overspin choke area. This compressor is way too small. A better flowing wheel or the move to a bigger housing/wheel combination is in order.





now i know that is a lot to take in, but once you understand how to read it, you can plot things on the maps them selfs, or use an online calc like this one: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
or some more simple calcs: http://www.turbofast.com.au/javacalc.html

as for the superchargers. thats a easy question. trd sold more kits than gmpp. simple enough. they are the exact same kit, just with a sticker change.

yep

x2!

:O

This is wonderful news. There's something more for the Izzfes.

The non vvti 1zzfe has about 120 hp and 122 tq. The vvti 1zzfe has about 127-130 and about 125 tq for the corolla models. The corolla models make can 160-180 hp on stock internals with the trd or GM supercharger. Possibly, the vvti 1zzfe can make a little bit more past 180.

With the TRD or GM Supercharger, how many hp and psi, can the non vvti izzfe handle on stock internals? It seems like the non vvti internals are weaker than vvti 1zzfe.

all 1zzfe internals are the same on the bottom end, except for the celica/mr2 spyder rods. they are cast and lighter in weight. that is the only difference. records for stock internal 1zz is in the 260-270 range on a turbocharged vehicle. but one small detonation at those power levels and the rods WILL exit the block. rods are the weak link. general rule of thumb with boosting a stock 1zz is to not go past 220whp.

never ask how many psi can X engine run, because it is all dependent on how the pressure is fed and what condition the engine is in. example, we know a 1zz will break rods above the 220whp mark. you can make 200 whp all day long with a good tune on low boost from a gt2871r turbo. 10-12 psi should put you in that ball park. now keep everything the same, but change the turbo to something bigger.. say a gt3582r. this is a 600+ hp capable turbo. that same engine isnt going to make 200whp on 10psi. try closer to 260. this is because the larger turbo is a more efficient air pump at lower boost levels, so it does not heat up the air as much. cooler air is denser air and denser air makes more power with the proper fuel and ignition advance, of course.

this is the whole reason turbo calculators were developed. to see how well the turbo is matched to the engine, to make sure you down blow it up with too large of a turbo the first time you roll into boost.

comfirm. sidewinder turbo manifold will be needed, like this:



and if i remember correctly, that is a gt35r next to a 2zz.. pics were borrowed from redxrsboy on nc.org. i wouldnt mind a setup like that at all... hmm...

i wish there were more shots of 2zz turbo side mount manifolds... most are honda k series, but i would still love to do a side mount turbo on my corolla. would be cool as fuck IMO
look at that turbo... looks like a gt4202r!

I traded the Sc12 supercharger for a TRD/GM supercharger. It is hard to find people who are selling the TRD/GM ecu and other parts to go with it. I'm trying to figure out how I can run this supercharger with an 8th gen corolla non vvti, without any problems. Yes.... I will need a custom hood for it to fit. I'm trying to shoot for 170-180 using the engine's stock internals .


8th corolla TRD Supercharged






Here is a picture of the kit. I only have the supercharger. Most of this stuff, I cannot find online. I wonder if I can customize it with different parts, like that of the sc12 supercharger, and still run it?

Can I run this GM supercharger with a Greddy E-Manage Ultimate ecu and a different ecu adapter, in place of the TRD/GM ecu ?




I read on Toyota Nation that the Celica has problems running the trd ecu. I'm wondering how are these Celica's are running a TRD/GM Supercharger ? Did they go custom ?

Celica GT supercharged 14.07 1/4 mile




Celica GT supercharged Dyno



eg hatch vs supercharge celica