Engine thoughts?

thoughts?

http://www.erzperformance.com/product_p/wr6.htm

think we can fit that in our 1zz?

wonder...

if it fits on a tiny celica engine bay than i think its safe to assume that it will fit into a larger corolla engine bay. but dont think they claims on that site are true... youll need WAY MORE than that intake manifold to make 50 more horses. looks like a nice unit too.

15 hp tops....

remember this is tuned for high rpms, and ours is tuned for 1500rpm from idle xD (longer runner lower rpm powah) they look 5", ours is like 15ish

some nice 270 270 cams with stock lift would make some 26 good HP...
for like 1200$ xD
unless you buy this mani with a turbo.... then we're talking power....

Very interesting. That would definitely not pass smog.

good thing i dont live in CA lol

so you're just completely replacing the intake manifold with that? wouldnt i need to mod something?

the throttle body connects to that hole on the top left? and the bottom part is what sticks to the rest of the engine?

oh and the 50hp claim is for mitsubishi applications... turbo like someone said...

List Price: $465.30
Our Price: $423.00
Costs way too much imo. You could fabricate one for a lot less.

exactly rolla tuner, but how many people know someone that can solder like a madman and back it up with warranty and have them stocked

it's a convenience thing

well if you make most things by yourself, it'd be the cheaper route.

You could get a quote from a welding shop to build one for you for less than half that. That doesn't require resources at all.

The design doesn't seems right to me.
In this design, the closest runner get all the air and the farthest get nothing?

Hard to tell from the photo - but looks like it is a standard surge tank design (hard to tell - photo taken at a perspective, can't see inside). Most surge tank designs, there are funnels attached to each intake branch - air will actually fill the larger tank before it moves down the intake stacks. The tank should be angled internally (going from wide to narrow) so that all cylinders will get an even amount of air (some of these box types are adjustable inside). In some cases, if the tank on the end is too small - it will not be able to keep enough air moving into the system, too big, and it will lose any sonic filling advantage - sometimes called inertia boosting. But you are correct - if it is just a box on the end that was sized incorrectly - at certain RPMs, you could have some cylinders starved for air.

Sounds like I'm not the only person here who have taken a engineering fluid dynamics course.- The taper toward the furthest runner IS normal. You would see that type of design on almost all inline intake manifolds.

Also designing a intake manifold is much more than simply welding a box together with a couple of runners in your garage. Many variables has to be taken into consideration; runner length/diameter, plenum volume and fluid dynamics calculations. The ideal intake manifold maximize both volumetric efficiency and air flow velocity and that can only be done with hours of blue printing and flow mapping simulations on CAD. Most of the mechanical engineers I know like to use Solidworks for automotive type applications and I wouldn't be surprised if Weapon R uses the same program.

Even if this intake manifold was designed and engineered to encompass the issues of runner length, diameter, plenum volume and fluid dynamics calculations, and efficiency, I don't see a need for it on a simple 1ZZFE. Even if it was subject to forced induction, the motor doesn't have the potential to fully use it for maximum performance. I say tubular intake manifolds for smaller motors will be more efficient in the long run. Heck, even an ITB setup would more efficient than both of them(of course coupled with fuel management and cam timing). What's the use of the box plenum with monstrous flow potential when you only have one puny throttle body allowing the air into it? I don't see a potential major power difference here.

I was responding to your thoughts about simply having a welding shop building a backyard special intake manifold versus one that has gone through blueprinting and R&D. In this case I was simple stateing variables like runner length and diameters could dramatically change the HP/TQ numbers on the dyno and blindly welding a manifold together could potentially hurt performance.

But while we're on the subject of stock intake manifold vs aftermarket.. people bore out/port their OEM cast manifolds for a reason - because they are highly restrictive. A aftermarket intake manifold like this one would always flow better due to the taper plenum design, built in velocity stacks, etc. If a person go through the trouble of switching manifolds he would be far from running a stock motor; overbored TB, high lift/long duralation cams, upgraded valvetrain.. it is ofcourse not a standalone modification.

I suppose you are right about those wanting to replace the manifold would have a built motor. But how much gain can you expect from this even with tuning and no forced induction. I think ITB's would be a better option.

That depends - both individual throttle bodies and a single throttle body can be tuned to provide good power and torque numbers. The benefits of a single throttle body is a tunable plenum which lets you make mid-range torque and high rpm horsepower. Ultimately it will have a little less top horsepower when compared to individual TBs and less response time (ITB being much more responsive to a point - better top end performance, provided that there is ample fuel atomization - sometimes air/fuel charge is not well mixed), but you'll have a much broader power band with a well design runners in the intake manifold.

If you step back and look at it far away - ITBs are usually housed in cold box, so in a large sense, they act like a single throttle body setup. You can get picky and talk about Toyota own T-VIS setup with the ITBs - making it much more flexible that a non-T-VIS setup. You also have to account for the added complexity of the system - sure looks a lot nicer, but look at the market and you'll see the trend to bigger throttle bodies and better design runners. On a track - intake air velocity is more important than overall air flow.

Mmmmmm..... ITB's..... :drool:

yeah, an ITB would be nice but they cost A LOT

whats an itb

In the butt







lol jk
individual throttle body

Here's a pic - on a 4AGE engine:

You do have a point there. Air velocity is more important overall. But we'll really have to test that on the 1ZZFE before we really make a conclusion. Someone on vvti.net is building a ITB setup for his 2001 so I will be following up on that to see what his power gains are.

btw thats the weapon-r manifold.. i sent them an emial and asked if it would fit our corollas...

I think I can give some input for this one.
This intake manifold is designed for turbo Celica GT. Remember Celica Gt has stock plastic intake manifold? It don't do well in turbo setup. (plastic + boost = bad) That's why for those ppl who want to turbo their GT, they will either use intake manifold from 98-02 rolla or go buy a aftermarket intake manifold like this one.

haha I guess I'm glad I have an extruded aluminum intake manifold.

our pipeworks are supehriors

Toyota likes to be cheap.

do you know who make those velocity stacks? I've been looking around for a blue set but so far only found red and silver from T3 and some companies who make em in CF.

I think I read somewhere they were made by TODA - but that was just a comment someone left. I'd say it is more likely someone had those anodized blue themselves. I have some parts anodized at a local speed shop - most of the cost is in the chemicals and disposal - was pretty cheap ~$60 for various pieces (computer heat sinks + a few pulleys + some blocks for an optics table).